Raise or Fold?

[bozlax]

[ QUOTE ]
Because no way is calling correct.

[/ QUOTE ]

No way? With 6 players, I think the only correct play is going to be call, _if_ you're insisting on staying in the hand. Personally, I'm not playing Axs where x < 7 from anywhere, and only x >= 7 from LP, preflop, so I wouldn't be in this hand to begin with.

So, anyway, you're in the hand, and you've flopped bottom pair, best kicker, against 6 opponents, with no reads. I think I lean toward folding, here, with 2/3 of the field yet to act, but you're getting at least 7:1 on a call with 5 outs to two pair or trips. (I call the gutshot outs close to zero, as that puts too many other ways on the board to beat your sixes.) I don't see a raise folding the _whole_ field (you're getting called by any jack, any ten, OESDs, and overs with a gutshot), so if you're going to stay in you call to try and build the pot and see a cheap turn. Remember, you're likely to get raised, regardless, by AJ/AT/KQ/KJ/KT/etc, do you want to pay 3 bets to see the turn or 2?

IMHO

[gopnik]

I'd fold this, small pot.
My next option would actually be calling. I don't think raising is correct here.

[bozlax]

[ QUOTE ]
A raise would be to fold a K or Q among other hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? You're not going to fold any jack or ten, here, nor any overcards, nor any draws, so I don't see why you'd want to fold anybody, as your hand is unlikely to survivie UI. Go for the overcalls to increase your implied odds, says I.

[ QUOTE ]
I don't put the bettor on AT or AJ, I think Jx is much more likely.

[/ QUOTE ]

Based on what? I think you're overly-narrowing Villan's range of hands with this. Also, how are you feeling about things if x is a king, queen, or ten?

[gharp]

I'd fold here too, since you don't have enough clean outs to continue. But unlike most responses I've read so far I think Folding > Raising > Calling.

Calling actually offers pretty good 8:1 odds to gutshots (87, Q8, etc), which I would like to see fold. I'm also thinking about folding any overcards to my 6's, which is just about everyone.

I think the question here is whether you consider this pot worth fighting for. Change it to a 12SB pot (maybe UTG+1 folds, MP2 calls and BB raises) and I'm probably raising. Also, make that J or T a [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and there's a good chance I'm raising here as well.

[gharp]

[ QUOTE ]
You're not going to fold any jack or ten, here, nor any overcards, nor any draws, so I don't see why you'd want to fold anybody, as your hand is unlikely to survivie UI. Go for the overcalls to increase your implied odds, says I.

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree that no J or T will fold, but I think many draws will (gutshots, backdoor flushes) and I also think overcards could, though I'd expect someone with 2 overcards to have raised preflop. You don't think A7o folds here getting 4:1? Isn't that a great result for us?

And going for overcalls is something I might do with a monster like a set or a big draw. With something vulnerable like bottom pair I'm trying to protect it.

(Again, making it clear that in this hand I still think folding's the best play)

[deception5]

If you are raising here against 5 opponents you are misapplying the concepts presented in SSH. There are 2 more players to act behind you, the pot is small, and there's a reasonable chance that if you have the best hand you won't by the river. A hand like 98 has 14 outs against you.

Bottom pair is just too weak. You're still drawing, so I'd call or fold. Usually fold unless I knew the other 4 players were extremely passive.

[bozlax]

[ QUOTE ]
I agree that no J or T will fold, but I think many draws will (gutshots, backdoor flushes) and I also think overcards could, though I'd expect someone with 2 overcards to have raised preflop. You don't think A7o folds here getting 4:1? Isn't that a great result for us?

And going for overcalls is something I might do with a monster like a set or a big draw. With something vulnerable like bottom pair I'm trying to protect it.

(Again, making it clear that in this hand I still think folding's the best play)

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think "many" draws will fold. And, assuming A7o is in the hand, if he'd call 1 he'd call 2.

I agree that folding is better than calling. I actually think Hero should've folded preflop. My point was that if you're going to stay in the hand it's to try and make two-pair or better, not to win UI, and so you should be trying to do that as cheaply as possible.

[silkyslim]

Hmm, are you guys advocating not raising because of the JT on the board (reason being people like broadway cards, so you may be up against 2 pair and your ace might make someone a straight)? If the board was a little less coordinated I would want to raise to draw to 2 pair or trips. This would protect my hand from the blinds and may give me a free card.

[mockingbird]

I would fold. The pot is small. I think you will need to get lucky to beat UTG. Move on, wait for a better hand.

If the flop had one or more spades I think I call.

[deception5]

[ QUOTE ]
If the flop had one or more spades I think this is a raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually tilts it even more to a call in my book...