Poker from Overseas as a US Citizen

[Paul Talbot]

Yes you can play from Thailand, I've seen at least one guy on line from Pattaya.

I would NOT ask the local authorities if it is legal. This would be like going in and saying, "Hi, do you have any fines I can pay?"

Regards,

Paul

PS. I once played on-line at the Kuala Lumpur airport while waiting for a flight. Free wireless throught the airport!

[tablecop]

Us citizen can avoid US taxes on the first US$70,000 (?used to be 70K, still is?) earned working overseas, every year, but you can't spend more than 30 days stateside (a lot of but's and in this cases ommitted). "earned" and "working" are not broadly defined so i offer no opinion whether on-line poker played by a US citizen, while living overseas, would count as "earned" income.

[lefty rosen]

I have seen some guys from Beijing, but they aren't your average worker. They are business people or gangsters. As Squiffy said the average Chinese person only earns less than 1000 US. Also if they don't live in a city they earn way less than this, more like 200 or 300 a year. Those guys don't even know the net exists.......

[squiffy]

This makes a lot of sense to me. I could have sworn I read an article once about U.S. workers in Saudi Arabia paying no taxes. So the general rule could be, you pay taxes on the income, but if there is this $70,000 exception, then for many people, that would mean a tax-free salary, even though the general rule would be to tax it. Check the irs.gov website.

[squiffy]

BINGO. Tablecop was right. The foreign earned income exclusion is now up to $80,000. Here is a snippet from the irs.gov website. This explains why I initially thought Emperor was wrong. I know I read articles about overseas U.S. workers not paying taxes on their foreign income. But when I read the general rule on the website, it did not mention the very important exclusion. Of course, there are a lot of tests you have to meet.

SNIPPET FOLLOWS:
Form (and Instructions)
1040X Amended U.S. Individual Income Tax Return
2555 Foreign Earned Income
2555-EZ Foreign Earned Income Exclusion
See chapter 7 for information about getting these publications and forms.

Who Qualifies for the Exclusions and the Deduction?
If you meet certain requirements, you may qualify for the foreign earned income and foreign housing exclusions and the foreign housing deduction.

If you are a U.S. citizen or a resident alien of the United States and you live abroad, you are taxed on your worldwide income. However, you may qualify to exclude from income up to $80,000 of your foreign earnings. In addition, you can exclude or deduct certain foreign housing amounts. See Foreign Earned Income Exclusion and Foreign Housing Exclusion and Deduction, later.

You may also be entitled to exclude from income the value of meals and lodging provided to you by your employer. See Exclusion of Meals and Lodging, later.

[squiffy]

Umm. Someone below recommended not asking the police about laws in Thailand. But I have to tell you. Some foreign countries are extremely strict about certain crimes. In some Southeast Asian countries they have executed people for possessing very small amounts of drugs, which would be a minor crime here. I don't think you want to take a chance.

In China, certain kinds of white collar crime, like fraud and embezzlement are also punishable by death.

I think it is foolish to assume that a crowded Asian nation values life as much as we do here. Severe financial, jail and physical penalties are the norm.

Remember the kid who got whipped with a cane in Singapore for trashing 50 parked cars? This was not a spanking but 6 severe hard strikes with a large thick cane, full force.

Sometimes in foreign countries, instead of spending a lot of money paying officers to enforce crimes, they just have a super-severe penalty for committing the crime, to discourage anybody from taking a chance.

If they charged you $10,000 for speeding or not having a subway ticket, this would discourage you from doing either. The chance of getting caught is slim, if there are few police on patrol. But do you really want to take the chance for a $1 subway ticket or to drive 10/20 miles faster.

In some Muslim countries, patting a child on the head or taking a child's picture could get you killed. Literally because of local customs and taboos.

If it's illegal to do something in Thailand, I would be sure to find out from someone knowledgeable in the American embassy how seriously the crime is treated.

Now, if you want to go on a date, with a 13 year-old-school girl, that's probably ok.

[southerndog]

I think you guys are missing the point on my question though. If people from poorer coutries like India could play, why wouldn't they? Saying they couldn't raise the funds isn't a good response. I'm sure that there is at least a few countries out there that are more concerned
with their people having money rather than enforcing stupid rules.

[slavic]

I didn't miss your point. I was simply saying that there seems to be a decent labor pool that can be trained to play low limits with +EV. That low limit game would be significant $ in those areas and could be a prime business opportunity for a backer. It would be a lot of work though for a smallish gain, and your best employees would be apt to strike out on their own.

[faith]

I've been living in thailand and playing online for the past year and a half. I'd suggest opening your online gaming accounts before leaving the states. Paradise and Party are both thailand friendly. There are a few others playing from thailand that I see online from time to time. Be sure to have a way to cash out into a US bank... It will save you a lot of hassle and grief.

By the way, get in touch when you fly in and the first beer's on me.

If you have any questions at all, don't hesitate to ask.