A post I've wanted to write for a long time (LONG)

[climber]

I tend to agree. I have pretty standard table selection procedure and review what tables I am sitting at very frequently, often leaving the tighter table.

The kind of annoying thing is that the tables I am doing well on/have doubled up on often dont have the best stats so I keep uncheckign my "auot-post blinds" box only to realize I'd be crazy to leave that table.

The problem I see is that SSH taught a bunch of us how to play AF=3 postflop and thats what we know how to do so we just find the loose games and keep betting and raising.

[phish]

Well said. Especially your comments about pre-flop vs post-flop. Way too much focus is given here to pre-flop play and stats. How someone plays post-flop is SO much more important. A tough expert 35 vpip will crush a nitty 17 vpip anyday, even in a 10 handed game.

[Josh W]

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Well said. Especially your comments about pre-flop vs post-flop. Way too much focus is given here to pre-flop play and stats. How someone plays post-flop is SO much more important. A tough expert 35 vpip will crush a nitty 17 vpip anyday, even in a 10 handed game.

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Yep. Just ask Derb (though I'd say 30 VPIP, not 35....but the point is the same).

[shemp]

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A tough expert 35 vpip will crush a nitty 17 vpip anyday, even in a 10 handed game.

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Good luck with that.

[sweetjazz]

I'm a mid-limit player and certainly the 10/20 and 15/30 are far from impossible to beat handily. But I played several hours of a no fold 'em live 3/6 game. I counted about 10 times when I made a bad or highly questionable decision (over 8 hours of play). This is about 1 every 25 hands (and I could be making more errors that I don't yet notice). On the one hand, it is good that I can now recognize my poor decisions when analyzing the hand immediately after the fact -- that experience is something I didn't have when I was first beating these games. There's probably something analagous that goes on at every limit -- when we first play, even if we succeed, we can't really spot where our leaks are. It's only after a long amount of play in a game can we start to reliably spot leaks (and hopefully not make them).

But on the other hand, it was disturbing to make so many mistakes. Almost all of my mistakes were pretty small EV wise and ranged from loose calls to failing to bluff at one pot where I might have been able to take it down due to unique circumstances to not value betting/raising in a few situations. If I make this many mistakes in a game that is easier than the 0.5/1 game on Party, how many errors am I making a 15/30 game?

I remember a few weeks ago having one of my best sessions ever. I felt like I had a great read of everyone at the table and was picking up on the style of every new player at the table quickly. I felt like I was consistently making good decisions. I only made one boneheaded play the entire session, calling down a turn raise with TT against a player who was too passive to check-raise the turn with a hand I could have beaten. It helped that I was runnning good most of the session, and in fact that probably significantly reduced the number of tough decisions I faced.

However, this was a rare experience. So often, I play decent but end up getting sloppy and make plays against my better judgment, or I fail to work on maintaining active reads of the other players at the table, or I overcompensate when running bad to avoid being run over.

Despite being a winning player so far, I would say that I am not much better than a half-decent player. I can crush loose small stakes games and I can beat the lower mid-limit games so far despite needing work in my game. But a lot of that is my opponents at these limits are more lazy and more sloppy than I am, not that I am particularly good. I believe that I am capable of being a much better player, but it will take a lot more work to reach that goal. Hopefully I will learn to THINK better and also develop the discipline to work on consistently applying all that I know and all my observational powers throughout every session I play. Instead of looking at how much I am winning against my bad opponents, when I am honest with myself, I realize that despite this appearance of success, I am leaving a significant amount of theoeretical EV on the table. I am not that good, but I can aspire to study more and work harder to become that good.

[Sponger15SB]

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I've made a lot of money at poker, and I've NEVER read a poker book.

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So uh, whats up with that?

Why not just buy a book and read it? You *might* just learn a thing of two.

[Sponger15SB]

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I've made a lot of money at poker, and I've NEVER read a poker book.

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So uh, whats up with that?

Why not just buy a book and read it? You *might* just learn a thing of two.

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Seriously though. I really am curious....

[Josh W]

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I've made a lot of money at poker, and I've NEVER read a poker book.

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So uh, whats up with that?

Why not just buy a book and read it? You *might* just learn a thing of two.

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Seriously though. I really am curious....

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Okay, I wasn't 100% truthful.

After playing for about 2 years, I hit a downswing. People suggested that I read HPFAP. I borrowed a copy of it from Sooga, and started to read it. I read the first 15ish pages, then glanced at a couple other chapters and found it very very obvious. I really don't enjoy sitting down and reading books, so I don't think it's +Life EV for me to read it.

Other books on limit holdem haven't been quoted as often or preached to me as much, so I figure nobody has reinvented the wheel as far as limit holdem books go, yet. IF I hear of a book that far surpasses HPFAP, I'll likely read it.

I've suggested to TONS of friends who want to learn poker to read books first. I wish somebody would have told me that before I lost thousands climbing the learning curve.

If I were to more seriously pursue NL or stud or omaha, I would certainly try to find a book to read first, to accelerate the learning process.

Hope this makes sense.

Josh

[stoxtrader]

tight games may or may not be good on an absolute basis, two important factors there is your skill, and the post-flop skill of your opponents.

on a RELATIVE basis, tight games blow.

[davehwm]

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I really don't enjoy sitting down and reading books, so I don't think it's +Life EV for me to read it.

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Regardless of the topic, I think anyone that doesn't read books is making a -Life EV move. And it's not even close.