$20-40 Floor Ruling, Ethics?

[STLantny]

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I rarely come down on the side of the nits, but this time I am. In a heads up pot I would see nothing wrong with discussing the hand, but since it it multiway I think it is inappropiate.

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Why is it inappropiate? I never understood that sentiment, if I want to say I can beat a queen or not, its up to the table to decide if I am lying/bluffing, whats the different if I say it, or bet it? None.

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The difference is it give the appearance of collusion. The hotel guest that you want to stay in the game may see it as you telling your friend to save money becasue you have her beat.

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Ah, I guess I really hadnt thought of that aspect, I think normally the players get the point that Im having fun/talking trash, than colluding. Unless the guy is the guy at the table that no one likes, then Ill say it in a different tone to him. Im rambling now....

[bernie]

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I rarely come down on the side of the nits, but this time I am. In a heads up pot I would see nothing wrong with discussing the hand, but since it it multiway I think it is inappropiate.

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Why is it inappropiate? I never understood that sentiment, if I want to say I can beat a queen or not, its up to the table to decide if I am lying/bluffing, whats the different if I say it, or bet it? None.

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The difference is it give the appearance of collusion. The hotel guest that you want to stay in the game may see it as you telling your friend to save money becasue you have her beat.

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I agree only if he's saying it to the person with relative discretion. Like whispering. Which I have actually seen one time. Ended up breaking the game.

If it's said loud enough that everyone can hear it that's involved in the pot, and it doesn't have the appearance of being said below board, they are all subject to the same info and can draw their own conclusions. I agree with the OP there.

I would think HU would indicate collusion more since then you could be saving the opponent money. Kind of like softplaying HU after going into the hand multiway. But that's a different matter as that's alot more common and accepted. Especially among regulars in a room. Those same regular 'tards that later on bemoan how much they are down when if they ever played their 'buds' straight up they'd be up. Morons.

b

[Randy_Refeld]

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If it's said loud enough that everyone can hear it that's involved in the pot, and it doesn't have the appearance of being said below board, they are all subject to the same info and can draw their own conclusions. I agree with the OP there.

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You are assuming the players understand the game. I have had players come to me and want me to do somethign becasue someone said to another player "you straddle then I will straddle." The players that might feel something is wrong are the exact palyers you want in the game.

[Good Idea]

I always thought you were not allowed to talk about hands only if you folded. If you are involved in the hand you can talk about your hand.

Regards,
G.I.

[Howard Burroughs]

Hi Randy,

Thanks for the reply.


"...since it it multiway I think it is inappropiate."


Then I see inappropriate behaviour every single day :-) YMMV





Thanks for the feedback guys.


Howard

[Al_Capone_Junior]

Overall, I am inclined to do nothing about these situations, as they are so commonplace it's almost pointless to bother. However, I'd ultimately have to very slightly side on the philosophy of Randy R on this one, it's basically more of a bad thing that could hurt the game and drive out the fishies. Still tho, unless some local nits get their panties in a bunch, I'm not going to go out of my way to intervene when this type of thing happens.

al

[Rick Nebiolo]

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Overall, I am inclined to do nothing about these situations, as they are so commonplace it's almost pointless to bother. However, I'd ultimately have to very slightly side on the philosophy of Randy R on this one, it's basically more of a bad thing that could hurt the game and drive out the fishies. Still tho, unless some local nits get their panties in a bunch, I'm not going to go out of my way to intervene when this type of thing happens.

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Essentially agree with you and Randy on this one.

Especially in no limit it seems half the table is auditioning for a job as WPT/ESPN commentator (fortunately I haven't heard any ex-wife jokes [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]). Usually it's a sign of a good game, but sometimes it goes over the top.

~ Rick

[Lottery Larry]

Aren't their collusion possibilities here? As a general idea, not this specific case.

[benfranklin]

From Robert's Rules of Poker (Ciaffone):

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POKER ETIQUETTE

The following actions are improper, and grounds for warning, suspending, or barring a violator:

Deliberately acting out of turn.

Deliberately splashing chips into the pot.

Agreeing to check a hand out when a third player is all-in.

Reading a hand for another player at the showdown before it has been placed faceup on the table.

Telling anyone to turn a hand faceup at the showdown.

Revealing the contents of a live hand in a multihanded pot before the betting is complete. Revealing the contents of a folded hand before the betting is complete. Do not divulge the contents of a hand during a deal even to someone not in the pot, so you do not leave any possibility of the information being transmitted to an active player.

Needlessly stalling the action of a game.

Deliberately discarding hands away from the muck. Cards should be released in a low line of flight, at a moderate rate of speed (not at the dealer's hands or chip-rack).

Stacking chips in a manner that interferes with dealing or viewing cards.

Making statements or taking action that could unfairly influence the course of play, whether or not the offender is involved in the pot.

Using a cell phone at the table.

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Two sections might apply:

1. "Revealing the contents of a live hand in a multihanded pot before the betting is complete." My understanding is that this is usually interpreted to mean that you cannot show your hand or truthfully state what it is. If you lie about your cards, you are not violating this rule. Saying you can beat a queen, if you can, could be interpreted as a nit violation.

2. "Making statements or taking action that could unfairly influence the course of play, whether or not the offender is involved in the pot." The key word here is "unfairly". Again, an issue of interpretation. Poker is a game of trying to influence the course of play. IMHO, saying anything is fair game and you believe anything said at the table at your own risk.

Personally, I figure that anything said at a card table is better than 50-50 to be BS. But unless I know better, I also figure that the odds are that there is at least one nit at the table, so it's best to not talk about hands.

[JonPKibble]

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On the turn, in a very big multiway pot (Queen high board), guy in the 8 seat says (I'm in the 2 seat)......

"You bet with a lot of confidence".

I say, "Because I can beat a queen".

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How is saying you can beat a queen any worse than telling the table that someone bet with a lot of confidence? I'm with you on this...