How much do you make with AA?

[2ndGoat]

<<I think this number varies significantly by limit too. I've found that in higher games I make much less with them. Maybe I forgot how to play them.>>

[ QUOTE ]

FWIW I make substantially more with AA in higher games than I did in lower games. In fact by about .5-.7BB/hand more, which I believe to be true because they're more likely to hold up in HU and occasional 3-way pots and the higher games are more aggressive.

[/ QUOTE ]

Making more as you move up makes perfect sense to me... when rags flop at low limit people put you on overcards and call. When rags flop at higher limits people put you on overcards and raise. I don't have a worthwhile database under 15/30 or I'd look into it.

2nd

[daryn]

2.79 bb/hand at 30/60

2.53 bb/hand at 100/200

[Jeff W]

2.48 BB/100 at 20/40 and 30/60. You guys w/ 3 BB/100+ must lead charmed lives.

[2ndGoat]

[ QUOTE ]
2.48 BB/100 at 20/40 and 30/60. You guys w/ 3 BB/100+ must lead charmed lives.

[/ QUOTE ]

I imagine it has more to do with playing style than anything else. I bet it's possible to have 5BB/hand in real expectation, but you'd have to play like a maniac to get that much action.

So as charmed as we may seem, I bet those with lower numbers make it up somewhere else, where you benefit from getting less action.

About about the "perfect sense" of making more as you move up. Well I guess not a great choice of words, let me retreat to "it sounds plausible" instead.

2nd

[Jeff W]

[ QUOTE ]
I bet it's possible to have 5BB/hand in real expectation, but you'd have to play like a maniac to get that much action.

[/ QUOTE ]

I strongly doubt this.

More data

[2ndGoat]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I bet it's possible to have 5BB/hand in real expectation, but you'd have to play like a maniac to get that much action.

[/ QUOTE ]

I strongly doubt this.

More data

[/ QUOTE ]

This data was from playing making 2BB/100, right? My point was, the more loose and aggressive you play, the more you you figure to make with aces. COnsider what would happen if every hand, you raised to the cap on every street. Then I think you would go so much action when you have AA that you couldn't help but make 5 BB/hand with it.

So really, I mean to say that how much you make with aces isn't necessarily correlated with your skill as a player than it is with your style of play. Those that make less than average with aces may make it back elsewhere.

The real monkey wrench in this... how fast to win rates for a given hand converge relative to convergence for ones overall game?

2nd

[Jeff W]

I understand Shania, but 5 BB is an unlikely expectation because AA doesn't always win and not everyone pays attention to your image.

A calling station doesn't know you are VPIP 100/PFR 100/AF Infinity over 100k hands.

[SoBeDude]

[ QUOTE ]
2.48 BB/100 at 20/40 and 30/60. You guys w/ 3 BB/100+ must lead charmed lives.

[/ QUOTE ]

3.72 in the Party 30 game since they opened it up to unlimited tables.

-Scott

[stoxtrader]

before i even look at my numbers I would say that I agree with Ike, the looser the limit (pre and post-flop), the more AA should make.

15/30 and 30/60 (most recent database) - 592 trials / 2.95
50/100 - 134 / 2.91
100/200 - 60 / 2.42
150/300 - 13 / 2.45
300/600 - 87 trials - 2.21

all limits 50/100 and higher
(includes some eclectic limits not singled out above)

320 trials 2.51/hand - $443/hand, but don't think that accounts for currency conversions.

sample size will be an issue, but i disagree with the thought process that higher limits you make more with them, and am surprised some people advocate it. please convince me otherwise, but as far as I'm concerned, against better players:

1 - you get paid off less when ahead ON AVERAGE
2 - you lose more when behind (sucked out on) ON AVERAGE

the arguement that pots are more often heads-up and 3 way is true, but that DOES NOT mean you should win more with aces. think about it.

[2ndGoat]

[ QUOTE ]
before i even look at my numbers I would say that I agree with Ike, the looser the limit (pre and post-flop), the more AA should make.

15/30 and 30/60 (most recent database) - 592 trials / 2.95
50/100 - 134 / 2.91
100/200 - 60 / 2.42
150/300 - 13 / 2.45
300/600 - 87 trials - 2.21

all limits 50/100 and higher
(includes some eclectic limits not singled out above)

320 trials 2.51/hand - $443/hand, but don't think that accounts for currency conversions.

sample size will be an issue, but i disagree with the thought process that higher limits you make more with them, and am surprised some people advocate it. please convince me otherwise, but as far as I'm concerned, against better players:

1 - you get paid off less when ahead ON AVERAGE
2 - you lose more when behind (sucked out on) ON AVERAGE

the arguement that pots are more often heads-up and 3 way is true, but that DOES NOT mean you should win more with aces. think about it.

[/ QUOTE ]

logic always ruins a good internet argument