don't be dumb like me

[DemonDeac]

so did he have KK or not?

[mr pink]

yeah he had KK.

[sthief09]

2:1 he has AA vs KK all else equal. as far as tendencies, I'd think he'll play AA like this more often than KK because he overplayed the turn so badly. at least AA can think you have KK. what can KK hope you have? even so, I'd say you're about 50/50 here and while AA might sometimes 3-bet, KK has the nuts and will always 3-bet.

and this is a weird statement: raise the flop here and hope mp1 3-bets to squeeze out mp2?

I don't usually like being told I'm beat

[Roland19]

Mr. Pink, don't you ever put him on KK here (OK, well maybe sometimes). Cap the river merrily with your 2nd nuts. I think you're being results oriented.

[clownshoes]

capping this river is excessive minus a read

[molawn2mo]

[ QUOTE ]
raising this river is excessive minus a read

[/ QUOTE ]

fyp

[clownshoes]

Raising the river really isnt that bad but capping is just awful

[molawn2mo]

[ QUOTE ]
Mr. Pink, don't you ever put him on KK here (OK, well maybe sometimes). Cap the river merrily with your 2nd nuts. I think you're being results oriented.

[/ QUOTE ]

this statement, imho, is retarded and is another form of tilt, the type of tilt that says I've got the 2nd nuts so even if the entire hand has been played as if villain had kk or aa and even when the river brought the proverbial miracle and the villain bet out... well, screw it, i got the 2nd nuts, raise blah blah.

next!

as you can see, i'm in a mood tonight. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Roland19]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Mr. Pink, don't you ever put him on KK here (OK, well maybe sometimes). Cap the river merrily with your 2nd nuts. I think you're being results oriented.

[/ QUOTE ]

this statement, imho, is retarded and is another form of tilt, the type of tilt that says I've got the 2nd nuts so even if the entire hand has been played as if villain had kk or aa and even when the river brought the proverbial miracle and the villain bet out... well, screw it, i got the 2nd nuts, raise blah blah.

next!

as you can see, i'm in a mood tonight. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

You are completely right. I should have given more thought before absent-mindedly posting a response. I must agree that capping the river is horrible, as any reasonable villian will never 3-bet without KK, but I can't see how raising could be so bad. I don't know if I'm running super well lately, or what, but I've seen TONS of people overplay AA like this, so I must admit I'd be inclined to raise the river. Capping is definitely spewing, you were right.

I'm not so good with the nitty gritty analyzing and number crunching, but intuitively, I would raise the river and call a 3-bet.

Also, I think a hand like this would be highly read dependent, as villian could be a complete maniac and we would then have to add a whole new range of hands to be considered, such as 22-JJ, AK, etc. Some of those are extreme, but sometimes people do crazy things.

[molawn2mo]

[ QUOTE ]

Also, I think a hand like this would be highly read dependent, as villian could be a complete maniac and we would then have to add a whole new range of hands to be considered, such as 22-JJ, AK, etc. Some of those are extreme, but sometimes people do crazy things.

[/ QUOTE ]

Look... the easiest type opponent to spot at a table is a maniac. Without a history, it maybe it takes 1 to 2 orbits to get an idea that you have a maniac as an opponent. That said, to continue to push on the river when heretofore the opponenet has not raised his maniacal flag, is spewing. IMHO, to raise/cap this river on, what seems to be the hope or possibility (like, hey man, I once saw a guy cap all 4 streets against 3 others and show down 72o), that the opponent is, indeed, a maniac is delusional. Since maniacs are so easy to "see," the default against an unknown, as in this case, ought not be maniac. Now, it may be argued that the default "unknown" opponent ought be classified as LPP or LAP or otherwise - my default being "reasonable LP," a default categorization that I am pretty certain gives my opponent more credit than most posters here seem to feel is warranted.

FWIW, I just think that it may be most posters best interest to give unknowns more credit than it seems is the norm here.