Big blind 10/20 Party

[JKratzer]

I don't think UTG could possilby have a straight here. A set is possible, but I didn't think likely. I really put UTG on an overpair or more probably a higher flush draw. I agree the raise leaves me stuck on a turn brick. Maybe I should have raised more, but I was really thinking I'd take it down with the raise while I didn't mind all-in. Didn't consider just a call too likely.

JKratzer

[BadVoodooX]

This is why I don't mind getting in when it's a situation like this where you're unlikely to be a huge dog, against all but those players whose games you really, really know you can be assigning them to far too small a hand range out of fear. Sure you'll get some variance but you have to play something besides the nuts or 2nd set like this or you will never get action from the regular players when you push. That has substantial meta gaming value & allows you to play your sets much more aggressively.

[savman]

[ QUOTE ]
This is why I don't mind getting in when it's a situation like this where you're unlikely to be a huge dog, against all but those players whose games you really, really know you can be assigning them to far too small a hand range out of fear. Sure you'll get some variance but you have to play something besides the nuts or 2nd set like this or you will never get action from the regular players when you push. That has substantial meta gaming value & allows you to play your sets much more aggressively.

[/ QUOTE ]

i didnt consider meta game. and i like the point of player dependancy, i guess i would say against a player who we at least know isnt solid, or is a known donk this play gets better esp. taking into account meta game. taking these factors into account i am warming up to leading pot here and pushing raise from a donk (i like to lead my sets). good post voodoo

[fimbulwinter]

[ QUOTE ]
you divide your outs by 4.5 to account for set redraws then the price isn't right... even if it MIGHT be 9 outs, neutral EV sucks.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't agree with really any of your input on this hand.

well played OP

fim

[Popinjay]

Being that this is an unraised pot, your opponent has not defined his hand very much at all. That said it is absolutely not worth it here to be all-in on a flop where you can easily be dominated by a higher flush draw.

[fimbulwinter]

you do realize he has a pair and a flush draw, therefore he cannot be "dominated" by really any hand, including a higher flush draw (higher FD has 2 overs plus 6 flush cards = 12 outs = behind in the hand), right?

I guess your post only makes sense if you missed the fact that he has a pair too (think about the massive EV mistake he'd be making folding to an overpair, a flush draw, a straight draw etc.)

fim

[Popinjay]

[ QUOTE ]
you do realize he has a pair and a flush draw, therefore he cannot be "dominated" by really any hand, including a higher flush draw (higher FD has 2 overs plus 6 flush cards = 12 outs = behind in the hand), right?

I guess your post only makes sense if you missed the fact that he has a pair too (think about the massive EV mistake he'd be making folding to an overpair, a flush draw, a straight draw etc.)

fim

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6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Okay you're right I did miss that he had a pair as well. I'm still not a big fan of the play just because of the marginal holdings and small pot size. I suppose it's a good play if you know your opponent to be a loose player.

[ginko]

This is a good post, however baby suited cards have a lot of their +EV in folding equity. You don't WANT to gamble. You want to push and take down an average pot.

Lets say an average opponent only has these hands:

1.)Set, two pair
2.)Overpair
3.)Bigger flush draw
4.)Straight

As you can see, in this spot, the majority if the time this is a set or 2 pair, your like 70/30 here. You're a coinflip or slightly better vs JJ, 60/40 vs a higher flush draw, 40/60 vs a straight.


This is a fold unless:

A.)Opponent is a complete idiot.
B.)You are the one pushing.
C.)You strongly believe you can make up the -EV from meta game benefits.

[mgsimpleton]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
you divide your outs by 4.5 to account for set redraws then the price isn't right... even if it MIGHT be 9 outs, neutral EV sucks.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't agree with really any of your input on this hand.

well played OP

fim

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if you meant my math, then i didn't mean by 4.5 i meant by 3.5/4.5...

and if you meant anything else, you could probably elaborate instead of saying "i don't really agree with anything you said," pointing me out specifically, then saying "well played OP." i happen to think it was badly played and OP got lucky with a donktastic UTG who he happened to be coin flipping with. either give your reasoning or don't post this worthless post.

to the OP, why did you put UTG on such a narrow range? were his UTG limping standards that narrow? next time, if they are, mention it in a post. with normal players at these limits, i still think the call is bad.

[mgsimpleton]

[ QUOTE ]

6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]



[/ QUOTE ]

actually, any two spades with a 6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] has OP crushed. a straight draw, flush draw, and two overs, like A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] would have what like 18 or 19 outs or something... that's crushing OP.