Blind Battles: Hand #5

[oreogod]

and if u had a pair I see no reason to not go crazy on this flop. There should be no reason to be afraid of getting 3bet, plus u are more likely to get a call down. why call and raise turn? I understand it to mix things up, or if the board was rainbow, or maybe if u have a 3...but with any made hand I think playing the flop hard is much better. Hence the reason more ppl want to call down. Its more likely hes making a move on this board. Unless Im way off base anyway.

EDIT: unless u think you are more likely to get a call down from a turn raise w/ a worse hand...thats the only time I see raising turn as being better with a made hand.

[Victor]

[ QUOTE ]
why call and raise turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

bc i have a note that says this, "idiot calls down a-high hu"

[Surfbullet]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
if i notice that you fold ace high to this turn raise every time i am gonna be raising the turn with bluffs against you super often in these situations.

[/ QUOTE ]

you dont know what i have.

people are advocating calling down 90% of the time. thats absurd. 40-50 is plenty high enough to dissuade shots. its unrecognizable.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. And call down AK-A9 unpaired and muck A8-A2 unpaired for randomization, instead of flipping a coin with whatever Ax you have at the time.

Surf

[Victor]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
if i notice that you fold ace high to this turn raise every time i am gonna be raising the turn with bluffs against you super often in these situations.

[/ QUOTE ]

you dont know what i have.

people are advocating calling down 90% of the time. thats absurd. 40-50 is plenty high enough to dissuade shots. its unrecognizable.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. And call down AK-A9 unpaired and muck A8-A2 unpaired for randomization, instead of flipping a coin with whatever Ax you have at the time.

Surf

[/ QUOTE ]

tru dat!

[dave44]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
if i notice that you fold ace high to this turn raise every time i am gonna be raising the turn with bluffs against you super often in these situations.

[/ QUOTE ]

you dont know what i have.

people are advocating calling down 90% of the time. thats absurd. 40-50 is plenty high enough to dissuade shots. its unrecognizable.

[/ QUOTE ]
This discrepancy could be due to a difference in looseness of range at this point in the hand. Personally, I tend to continuation bet this turn with most of the hands I'd raise preflop and bet the flop with. After I bet this turn, I could still have all sorts of garbage. If I didn't take A9o to showdown here, an aggressive player could own me.

If you are playing a tighter range of hands this way, then you don't necessarily have to take A9 to showdown.

[Victor]

another thing is there is a huge inconsistency between this post and your other one where everyone says to check/fold the river with a5o. i want to know wtf is going on here. how is this situaion, where we are calling 2bets to see showdown better than 1bet.

[mperich]

The situation is TONS different. I think the main difference here would be what your opponent is expecting you to do. In hand the a5 hand he probably wants a call, since ur hand is pretty transparent (your hand range is small and he knows this, thus it's easier to figure out his hand range based on what you know he knows)

In this hand your hand range is very wide. This in turn makes his range a lot larger so there are more options. There are tons of hands you cant call down with here and he knows that, so his bluffing frequency is much larger. I'd say I on the turn im calling 75 folding 25, and then if he fires the river I am probably folding maybe 20% of the time. I think in a vacuum I fold the river more, but since metagame counts I don't.

I like this series tstone keep em coming.

-Mike

[Victor]

your post makes sense however i dont understand why you fold the river (assuming a blank) after calling the turn.

[mperich]

Because if there was no metagame a river bet by him with no pair is -ev, and if he is tough and solid he knows this. The only thing you are folding is a busted flush draw. Also I think he is free showdowning with an ace some of the time (i would often play an ace exactly like this on this board)

-Mike

[Victor]

heres another thing: if we are so adamant to show down our medium ace high what is wrong with check calling down on the turn?