Do We Work Too Hard?

[Peter666]

"Peter, it is not for you or me or anyone to tell someone what they should value, no matter how "impressionable" they are..."

This statement is inherently contradictory, as you just told me what I should value.

The entire basis of religion is to tell people what to value. Your economics is devoid of religion, and that contradicts the human condition. It can never work practically, just like Communism.

Also, there was a general statement made against fascism, to make it seem like it is inherently wrong. Spain, Portugal, pre-WWII Austria under Dolfuss are all examples of where fascism worked great, but that is because the leaders were concerned about the common good of their people. They were not pushing a false doctrine like Nazism.

[vulturesrow]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
"Peter, it is not for you or me or anyone to tell someone what they should value, no matter how "impressionable" they are..."

This statement is inherently contradictory, as you just told me what I should value.

The entire basis of religion is to tell people what to value. Your economics is devoid of religion, and that contradicts the human condition. It can never work practically, just like Communism.

Also, there was a general statement made against fascism, to make it seem like it is inherently wrong. Spain, Portugal, pre-WWII Austria under Dolfuss are all examples of where fascism worked great, but that is because the leaders were concerned about the common good of their people. They were not pushing a false doctrine like Nazism.

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Economics is his religion..thats the problem

[coffeecrazy1]

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"Peter, it is not for you or me or anyone to tell someone what they should value, no matter how "impressionable" they are..."

This statement is inherently contradictory, as you just told me what I should value.

The entire basis of religion is to tell people what to value. Your economics is devoid of religion, and that contradicts the human condition. It can never work practically, just like Communism.

Also, there was a general statement made against fascism, to make it seem like it is inherently wrong. Spain, Portugal, pre-WWII Austria under Dolfuss are all examples of where fascism worked great, but that is because the leaders were concerned about the common good of their people. They were not pushing a false doctrine like Nazism.

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Economics is his religion..thats the problem

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No...Christianity is my religion...but when did this become a theological debate? I was speaking in terms of government, not belief systems...hence my "contradictory" statement. Perhaps I should have clarified my pronouns a little better...I was merely speaking in a legal sense, which, unless I'm mistaken, was where you were advocating telling people what to do. And...while we're here...since when was it a good idea for economics to be tied to religion? Aren't many of the world's problems the direct result of that mixture? All I'm advocating is people's right to choose whichever economics they want, and not restrict them legally, even if I personally wouldn't do it, think it's foolish, or believe it's wrong.

I know better than to bring a religious debate in here. Ironically, though, my system requires faith in mankind...something sorely lacking in most other systems.

As to your claim that fascism worked great, I humbly submit that I would prefer a system of government that has less of the "whacko" potential of fascism, which allowed the deaths of 12 Million people. I think I would like a system with a slightly better track record. Also...how about that Fahrenheit 451 and that 1984?

[vulturesrow]

I was talking about PVN.

[mackthefork]

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Quote:
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Sorry, I mistakenly wandered down the path of thinking that what is valued isn't actually that important (smack wrist).


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Important things will always be valued. At what they are worth.

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This isn't the place for this argument, but it would be a sad life if $s were the only way of measuring the importance of someone or thing, fortunately we don't actually live in that world.

Mack

[wiseheart]

Im not going to read all these stupid posts,
but I hope someone else pointed out that most
of you are making normative statements (opinions)
as opposed to positive statements (facts)

The US works more hours than some countries and
less than others... here is a link to a nifty
chart that shows it for you Click here and scroll Down

Took about 30 seconds via google. By the way,
for those who think that this nation is working
harder, the average number of work hours/week has
continuously fallen over the past few decades in
the US. This is a nationwide statistic though and
is more related to working population. The average
work week for full time workers has not seen much
gain either though.

[Darryl_P]

That Hungary is tied with the USA and ahead of Canada on that chart is a complete farce. I live in Hungary and it is plainly obvious why the economy is half of what it is in the west -- people are lazier and work less, end of story.

Sure, when there are 8 guys on a construction site, one of whom is manning a piece of equipment while the others stand around and watch, all 8 are technically "working" because their contract says they are, but I think the OP is talking about *really* working, not just on paper.

Also if you go to a shopping mall in Budapest at 2pm on a weekday you'll see plenty of able-bodied working age adults shopping for themselves. Most of these are officially "working" and have just "stepped out". Same goes for the people in cafes and restaurants.

And you'll often see long lines at various shops and offices while the clerk finishes her private gossip session, not giving a crap about how much money her employer makes. The employer doesn't ever find out because he's busy shopping, er I mean "working".

I could go on and on, but the idea is that just because someone added up a bunch of numbers doesn't mean they have more facts than someone who just walks around with his eyes open.

[tylerdurden]

[ QUOTE ]
"Peter, it is not for you or me or anyone to tell someone what they should value, no matter how "impressionable" they are..."

This statement is inherently contradictory, as you just told me what I should value.

The entire basis of religion is to tell people what to value. Your economics is devoid of religion, and that contradicts the human condition. It can never work practically, just like Communism.

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First of all, your post is "in reply to" me, though the words that you've quoted are not mine.

People do not pick governments the way they pick religions. You get stuck with the government that claims dominion over your property, whereas you can choose whatever church you want to go to. If you could change governments as easily as you can change religions (i.e. without moving), I'd have little objection.

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Also, there was a general statement made against fascism, to make it seem like it is inherently wrong. Spain, Portugal, pre-WWII Austria under Dolfuss are all examples of where fascism worked great, but that is because the leaders were concerned about the common good of their people. They were not pushing a false doctrine like Nazism.

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I guess it depends on who's definition of "worked great" you're using. Just because *you* find a particular government agreeable doesn't mean everyone else does.

[MMMMMM]

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Sure, when there are 8 guys on a construction site, one of whom is manning a piece of equipment while the others stand around and watch, all 8 are technically "working" because their contract says they are, but I think the OP is talking about *really* working, not just on paper.

Also if you go to a shopping mall in Budapest at 2pm on a weekday you'll see plenty of able-bodied working age adults shopping for themselves. Most of these are officially "working" and have just "stepped out". Same goes for the people in cafes and restaurants.

And you'll often see long lines at various shops and offices while the clerk finishes her private gossip session, not giving a crap about how much money her employer makes. The employer doesn't ever find out because he's busy shopping, er I mean "working".

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This is how I would imagine a world to be if it were populated primarily by ACPlayers and Cyruses:

ACPlayer would be using the company forklift to do donuts in the reception area, gassing and giggling and waving his scuba mask 'round his head; seven solemn Cyruses would be looking on, and offering profound commentary on the meaning of it all. And all the while customers waiting.

This could be the forefronts of the "semi-waking dream before the coffee" syndrome...still, it rings somehow true, I reckon...[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[SheetWise]

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This isn't the place for this argument, but it would be a sad life if $s were the only way of measuring the importance of someone or thing, fortunately we don't actually live in that world.

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Agreed.

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