How do you feel about people outright asking you for money?

[Goodie54]

Just to be perfectly clear. I am not in the same category or even close to the extremists you describe.

Your point about your parents ripping up the check and being insulted at the thought of you handing them money is well taken. I certainly see your point and to be honest, my parents would definetly feel the same way and if I didn't know that the money I gave them would allow them to live happier for the rest of thier lives, I certainly would not argue with them. I would take back the money I offered. I do, however, disagree with your thoughts about good intentions. I don't think they apply to the example I outlined. If I were to come into hundreds of millions of dollars, spliting a good portion of that up with friends and family is the only way I see to live the rest of my life. I honestly can't see how someone could consider not doing this. If there were some of my friends or family that were proud and did not want to accept the donation, I would honor thier wishes, but to not offer, I couldn't live with myself.

Back to your original point which was that people assumed that you had given some of your new found fortune to your parents. I don't particularly have a problem with this assumtion since I do believe that most people that have a good releationship with they're parents would do so. This is originally what I was speaking to and I stand by that assertion.

Peace

Goodie

[Greg (FossilMan)]

[ QUOTE ]
Just to be perfectly clear. I am not in the same category or even close to the extremists you describe.

[/ QUOTE ]

I did not mean to imply that you were close to these sorts. But you were giving the impression that you were in the same category. You seemed to be implying that I was wrong, and that you couldn't see how anybody could think like me. That any good person would do as you say you would do. And that sounds like righteousness, and I consider righteousness to be a form of evil, but one that is very well disguised.

[ QUOTE ]
I do, however, disagree with your thoughts about good intentions. I don't think they apply to the example I outlined. If I were to come into hundreds of millions of dollars, spliting a good portion of that up with friends and family is the only way I see to live the rest of my life. I honestly can't see how someone could consider not doing this. If there were some of my friends or family that were proud and did not want to accept the donation, I would honor thier wishes, but to not offer, I couldn't live with myself.

[/ QUOTE ]

Again, you are putting yourself in my shoes, rather than seeing me for who I am, and the shoes I am in. I am not you, and my family is not your family. That must be why you can't see how I "could consider not doing this".

[ QUOTE ]
Back to your original point which was that people assumed that you had given some of your new found fortune to your parents. I don't particularly have a problem with this assumtion since I do believe that most people that have a good releationship with they're parents would do so. This is originally what I was speaking to and I stand by that assertion.

[/ QUOTE ]

Again, you come across as a bit condescending and righteous here. This paragraph almost says that I must not have a good relationship with my parents, or I would have given them money. And that is absolutely a mistake. I have a very good relationship with my parents, but neither of us would ever consider giving money to the other absent something close to an emergency. We believe in self-sufficiency, and that just giving things to people tends to make them lazy as opposed to happy. Teach people, help people improve themselves, but don't just give them money; that is the way we tend to think.

My parents would have gone through a lot of hardship to put me through college, if that had been necessary. And I would go through a lot of hardship to help them in such a manner, if they needed it. But neither of us expects a penny from the other barring such need.

Maybe your family would be happier if you gave them a bunch of money. However, once past the short term, I doubt it would work.

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

[Goodie54]

I apologize if my posts have been condescending. I certainly was not intending them to be. I guess my problem comes from not seeing your point of view. I have not encountered someone in my lifetime that considered having a great deal of money, even if not earned, would make them lazy. From my perspective, life is not about working. It's about living and raising a family and treating people with respect. Now, in my experience (which of course is limited to playing poker with you and reading about you on the internet), I am confident that you perform these tasks quite well.

My standpoint is that raising a family, treating people with respect and what not, for a good person, is much easier to do when you have a good deal of money. Money doesn't cure all ills, but it certainly makes it easier to live a full life and help those closest to you.

I guess we'd have to agree to disagree on this subject.

Please accept my apology for implying that you don't have a good releationship with your parents. From your response, it just seems like you have a relationship with them that I have not encounted and had not considered.

Peace

Goodie

[Greg (FossilMan)]

Fair enough, and well said.

I knew it was very likely that the implications in your posts were not intended. It is hard to see beyond our own experiences, for you, for me, for everybody. It is something I am trying to get better at for many reasons. One good reason is that you become better at reading your opponents if you become better at understanding viewpoints that are alien to your own.

Always nice to have a friendly debate.

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

[Jorge10]

[ QUOTE ]
If I were to come into hundreds of millions of dollars, spliting a good portion of that up with friends and family is the only way I see to live the rest of my life. I honestly can't see how someone could consider not doing this. If there were some of my friends or family that were proud and did not want to accept the donation, I would honor thier wishes, but to not offer, I couldn't live with myself.


[/ QUOTE ]

You couldnt live with yourself if you didnt give them money?

Wouldnt you feel worse if a chain of hatred and jealousy was created because you didnt give the friend of your friend money? Or wouldnt you feel guilty because now all the people in your family that once were happy are splitting up and generally just fighting over the money they got? Or disappointed with the fact that a lot of them do nothing anymore?

I dont get why you cant see that giving a bunch of money to certain people can really screw up their lives, not everyone thinks like you and is going to make good use of the money, some will snap and decide they no longer should follow the law or remain with their families. I would feel much worse if the money I gave out caused families to end and landed some people in rehab or jail.

Im not saying all will just snap, but some will. Thats why you dont give people money blindly, you help them by paying for their homes or something along those lines, but handing out money is madness, plus a point no one ever made is that, some are going to blow thru the money and ask for more.

[Goodie54]

Wouldn't a chain of hatred and jealosy be more likely if you took your 200 million, used it all for yourself, and hung everyone you loved out to dry?

You tell me which is worse. Giving enough money to all that are important to you so that they can either retire or pursue an alternate career that makes them happy and proves fullfilling OR

You using all the money for yourself and all the people important to you have to continue to grind it out everyday at jobs that niether make them happy nor are fullfilling. Obviously this is not the case with all of my friends and family, but most of them would rather be doing something else besides working. Why not give them that chance?

I'll roll the dice everytime that one or more of my friends and family will not handle the money well. If the rest leave thier crappy jobs and pursue a happy existance, it would all be worth it.

And if you think that this money will cause someone to "no longer follow the law" then first of all, why are they an important part of your life and second of all, don't lend money to that person. And yes, I realize this disgrimination will cause problems, but It's not enough for me to agree that giving the money to no one is a good idea.

Peace

Goodie

[DesertCat]

[ QUOTE ]


I'll roll the dice everytime that one or more of my friends and family will not handle the money well. If the rest leave thier crappy jobs and pursue a happy existance, it would all be worth it.


[/ QUOTE ]

It's interesting when someone who doesn't have any money thinks that money is the key to happiness. It really isn't. Finding what you love and striving to be good at it costs nothing.

If I gave away millions to my family, I know of at least one member who would be dead within months from a drug overdose. Others would never leave the couch.

One of my poorest family members is driving with a suspended license. Her license was suspended because she couldn't afford to pay her traffic tickets. Both traffic tickets were for not wearing a seatbelt. Despite her tough financial situation, she and her husband just bought a new car. Previously she inherited $20,000. It was gone in three months.

How can I help this person by giving them money? She won't even help herself by buckling a seat belt.

[Zetack]

[ QUOTE ]
Wouldn't a chain of hatred and jealosy be more likely if you took your 200 million, used it all for yourself, and hung everyone you loved out to dry?

You tell me which is worse. Giving enough money to all that are important to you so that they can either retire or pursue an alternate career that makes them happy and proves fullfilling OR

You using all the money for yourself and all the people important to you have to continue to grind it out everyday at jobs that niether make them happy nor are fullfilling. Obviously this is not the case with all of my friends and family, but most of them would rather be doing something else besides working. Why not give them that chance?

I'll roll the dice everytime that one or more of my friends and family will not handle the money well. If the rest leave thier crappy jobs and pursue a happy existance, it would all be worth it.

And if you think that this money will cause someone to "no longer follow the law" then first of all, why are they an important part of your life and second of all, don't lend money to that person. And yes, I realize this disgrimination will cause problems, but It's not enough for me to agree that giving the money to no one is a good idea.

Peace

Goodie

[/ QUOTE ]

I still am puzzled by why you keep using these extreme examples. I think a lot of people would do different things with a sudden windfall of 200 million vrs 3-5 million.

It didn't occur to me that Greg had given his folks money after his win, because from what I gleaned in the stories it didn't sound like his folks particularly needed it. On the other hand David Williams has apparently helped his mom out a lot, but it sounds like she did need it.

If I won a few million, I probably wouldn't be giving my parents money unless they had a big reversal of financial fortunes because they simply aren't in a place where they need it. On the other hand, if I came into 200 million I'd probably go to them, and go, look this is just silly mad money, and I'd feel a lot better if you guys would accept some from me.

I don't know whether they would or not, because again, they don't need it.

--Zetack

[Goodie54]

You obviously didn't read my post where I said that if I were to win 3-5 million, most of my friends and family would have to fend for themselves. Nevertheless, my parents would be taken care of. If they chose not to accept it, so be it, but the offer would be made nonetheless.

Peace

Goodie

[rchandra]

Probably not replying to the right post thread-wise, sorry.

Anyway, I don't see why any poker tournament winnings should be shared. You risked your money, and more often than not you'll get nothing, even assuming you're better than average. That one huge cash is going to be partially offset by smaller losses. This is also true for lotteries, but due to differing utilities of different amount of money it's not such a big deal there.

Now, if somebody close needs the money, I'll break my bankroll for them. They will pay me back if / when they can. If they can't, no problems. But I'm not randomly giving money unless I trip over a sack of gold. (So I didn't "work" for it or risk anything myself .. it's truly found money.).

In the more extreme case where the amount is so ridiculous that it makes no difference to me (and this amount is different for everybody) then I might start offering. But definitely only for people who have been there for me in the past .. parents and siblings, some close friends.
But it's highly unlikely I'd do anything where I could win such an amount. I don't play the lotto and I'm not entering a 1M person tournament with a 10K + 100 buyin, winner-take-all. If someday I enter and win the WSOP I'll feel I earned my prize and want to keep it all (again, if somebody close needs some specifically that's different).

Rahul Chandra