Two Plus Two Older Archives  

Go Back   Two Plus Two Older Archives > 2+2 Communities > Other Other Topics

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-27-2003, 11:32 PM
John Cole John Cole is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Mass/Rhode Island
Posts: 1,083
Default Re: Why The Race Gaps In Educational Performance?

M,

Get off these Townhall "writers." Note for example that Sowell mentions "fads" in both of your links, yet he never explains what those "fads" are. In fact, many schools across the country have turned to basic skills once again in an effort to meet the requirements of the No Child Left Behind program. You'd be interested in Malcom Gladwell's brief article in a recent New Yorker on how competency is judged. Gladwell shows that three different assessment methods give three very different competency rates. Either 77%, 20%, or 10% of students show competency in reading depending upon which method is selected. He also points out, and this should surprise no one here, that the schools that show the biggest gains are almost always the smallest schools in a state because luck plays a huge factor in test scores.

Beyond this, though, let me give you one example of how poor schools fail to measure up to wealthy schools. In the very early grades, children use color coded books to teach them certain concepts. In one school system, the color books are copied--in black and white.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-28-2003, 12:16 AM
MMMMMM MMMMMM is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 4,103
Default Re: Why The Race Gaps In Educational Performance?

Points taken.

What do you think about the idea that study habits and discussions away from school have much to do with a child's success?

I'm not saying economics plays no role, but if on average, scholastically speaking, Asians significantly outperform whites, and whites significantly outperform blacks...is this only due to economics, or is it also as Sowell says: Asian parents demand that their kids study hard, and their kids really do. I think a lot of it is due to culture as well as economics. If it were solely due to economics then Asians would have to be considerably richer than whites on average in order to explain their superior academic averages (heck maybe they are richer, I don't know). Also, Jewish students tend to outperform other groups. Yet they would be grouped under "white" thus serving as a counterweight to the Asian scholastic achievement (by comparison)--yet Asians still outperform whites as a group. So unless I'm missing something big I just don't see how academic performance isn't significantly influenced on average by cultural considerations as well as by economic considerations.

Personally, I think I would have benefitted had I had more structure and discipline in my school years, and also probably would have achieved more in life thus far if I had had more of it earlier. Never too late to improve one's habits though.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-02-2003, 01:02 PM
angry young man angry young man is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: the seedy underbelly of midwest suburbia
Posts: 254
Default Re: Why The Race Gaps In Educational Performance?

What do you think about the idea that study habits and discussions away from school have much to do with a child's success?

This point is interesting. I agree with you that the values of the household (which stem from cultural values) have a huge effect on scholastic (and other kinds) of success. I would expect that this has a larger effect on these trends than any genetic differences. There are issues that are ignored by these articles (perceived abilities effecting actual performance, for example) but I've always felt that it was clear some cultures placed much more value on education and this was reflected in their children's academic performance. You can divide it up racially to some degree [Asian and Jewish cultures, and even, to a degree, religious beliefs, certainly place a lot of value on knowledge and education; surprise their kids score well], but you can also see geographic and economic diferences in values. Essentially, if your family doesn't think school is important it's less likely that you'll do well, regardless of your ability.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:29 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.