Bet and collect or check and trap?

Bet. At least someone will call you and you will probably get reraised by somebody with a K or maybe even someone who thinks they can bluff out the pot.

It's hard not to get customers on this hand because it's going to be tough for somebody to put you on the 4 of a kind.

[TheHip41]

[ QUOTE ]
Am I the only one who doesn't like the preflop call completing the small blind? You have 2 limpers in and the big blind yet to act. How is your preflop equity not practically 0?

[/ QUOTE ]

I call here just about always getting 7.5-1

pokerstove says


equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 30.2640 % 29.66% 00.61% { 22+, A2s+, K9s+, Q9s+, JTs, A9o+, KTo+, QJo, JTo }

Hand 2: 24.7526 % 23.89% 00.86% { 22+, A2s+, K8s+, Q8s+, J8s+, T7s+, 97s+, 86s+, 75s+, 65s, A6o+, K8o+, Q8o+, J8o+, T8o+, 98o }

Hand 3: 23.5431 % 22.74% 00.81% { Qc8s }

Hand 4: 21.4403 % 20.29% 01.15% {random }

[kiddj]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Am I the only one who doesn't like the preflop call completing the small blind? You have 2 limpers in and the big blind yet to act. How is your preflop equity not practically 0?

[/ QUOTE ]

I call here just about always getting 7.5-1

pokerstove says


equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 30.2640 % 29.66% 00.61% { 22+, A2s+, K9s+, Q9s+, JTs, A9o+, KTo+, QJo, JTo }

Hand 2: 24.7526 % 23.89% 00.86% { 22+, A2s+, K8s+, Q8s+, J8s+, T7s+, 97s+, 86s+, 75s+, 65s, A6o+, K8o+, Q8o+, J8o+, T8o+, 98o }

Hand 3: 23.5431 % 22.74% 00.81% { Qc8s }

Hand 4: 21.4403 % 20.29% 01.15% {random }

[/ QUOTE ]
Am I correct in assuming that if you had reads confirming a narrower range of hands for the limpers (or an aggression/skill level of the BB), it could alter this auto-call? Or would the hand be that much easier to get away from on an unfavorable flop?

[Bob T.]

This is an easy bet. The river card makes it look like you don't have a queen, so your opponents now think that the best full house will win the hand and might make a value raise with a king.

Online 5/10 game. UTG open raises, bad player coldcalls, folded to me in the BB with KQs, and I call,

Flop KKJ, I donkbet to represent the jack, UTG calls, LP raises, I call, UTG calls.

Turn K, I donkbet to represent a jack whose kicker doesn't play, UTG calls, LP raises, I call, UTG calls.

River A, I donkbet, because its fun to tripledonkbet, and I have the nuts. UTG raises, LP reraises, I cap it, and both call. UTG had AQsuited, and LP had AJsuited.

Moral: bet the nuts, they might not believe you [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img].

[ QUOTE ]
Am I the only one who doesn't like the preflop call completing the small blind? You have 2 limpers in and the big blind yet to act. How is your preflop equity not practically 0?

[/ QUOTE ]

I fold here preflop. Your equity is probably fine. IMO, though, these types of hands are extremely difficult to play postflop, especially OOP.

[Ivanapolis]

Thanks for the replies!!!

I thought noone would raise with a king, so I checked. 1st player bet, second raised, third folded, I reraised and both called (K5 and K4). And I REALLY think if if I would have bet they both would only have called - course (my oppinion) - what should they think what I should have??!

Here is an example to show the problem (please dont compain about the preflopcall - I do not want to discuss that, I know that it is wrong):

Paradise Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, Button calls.

Turn: (6.25 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, Button calls.

River: (10.25 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls, Button calls.

Final Pot: 13.25 BB

[Bob T.]

[ QUOTE ]
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Am I the only one who doesn't like the preflop call completing the small blind? You have 2 limpers in and the big blind yet to act. How is your preflop equity not practically 0?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I fold here preflop. Your equity is probably fine. IMO, though, these types of hands are extremely difficult to play postflop, especially OOP.

[/ QUOTE ]

[Ivanapolis]

Sorry, now the cards:

Paradise Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, Button calls.

Turn: (6.25 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, Button calls.

River: (10.25 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls, Button calls.

Final Pot: 13.25 BB

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
Hero has 7d 5h (four of a kind, sevens).
MP1 has 3d Td (full house, sevens full of tens).
Button has Ad As (full house, sevens full of aces).
Outcome: Hero wins 13.25 BB. </font>

[Dagger78]

You may have the equity to call pre-flop but this assumes you will play prefectly post-flop. You'll be OOP with a very weak hand and often have no idea where you stand. Foir this reason you should fold these weak offsuit hands here preflop.

As it is, bet the river, a King will raise so you can 3-bet.

[Ivanapolis]

You saw that one where the aces never raised?