Who the best and worst tippers?? (For Dealers, but anyone is welcome

[Jordan Olsommer]

OK.

I don't want to start a flamewar or anything here (honest!), but I have to ask.

Tipping a waitress is often argued as correct "to insure promptness" or "to insure prompt service" or whatever.

But a dealer??

What's he going to do - give you better cards if you tip him? Or is it going to be like some kind of socially-acceptable extortion where he is more likely to "accidentally" scoop your hand into the muck if you're a bad/non-tipper (sort of like how some people say you should tip waiters/waitresses "or else they'll piss in your food" or something along those lines).

The only reasons I can see why people tip dealers are therefore a) not to look cheap in front of the other players (social pressure); and/or b) empathy or pity (arising out of a concern because they realize that dealers rely heavily on tips, in which case that makes for a very interesting contrast - the cold-hearted poker player who'd bust his own grandmother if she got into a pot with him, yet feels compelled to toss a piece of each pot he wins to someone who agreed to work for X an hour on his own volition with the understanding that tips may or may not come).

Any thoughts on this?

[tomdemaine]

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Any thoughts on this?

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You're cheap?

[Jordan Olsommer]

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Any thoughts on this?

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You're cheap?

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Actually, I've never played in a B&M cardroom, so I've never even been given the opportunity to tip a dealer before.

Also, while you are of course free to post whatever you want, I politely requested for thoughts on this topic, not braindead comments that you were apparently too lazy to provide evidence or argument for or even to construct a banal joke around. Thanks for playing anyway, though.

[tylerdurden]

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Also, while you are of course free to post whatever you want, I politely requested for thoughts on this topic, not braindead comments that you were apparently too lazy to provide evidence or argument for or even to construct a banal joke around. Thanks for playing anyway, though.

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Well, there have been about 4 xillion threads on this topic. Every single one of them has a bunch of cheapskates trying to justify their stiffing the dealers. Search if you want to read their "thoughts" on the matter, otherwise get flamed.

My personal opinion: if you don't want to tip, then that's fine, don't tip, but STFU, we don't want to hear convoluted justifications of how you think tipping is bad or how you think dealer quality would magically remain constant if everyone suddenly quit tipping.

[Jordan Olsommer]

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Well, there have been about 4 xillion threads on this topic. Every single one of them has a bunch of cheapskates trying to justify their stiffing the dealers. Search if you want to read their "thoughts" on the matter, otherwise get flamed.

My personal opinion: if you don't want to tip, then that's fine, don't tip, but STFU, we don't want to hear convoluted justifications of how you think tipping is bad or how you think dealer quality would magically remain constant if everyone suddenly quit tipping.

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That's funny, I recall having said that I've never even been in a position to tip or not tip a dealer, and wasn't arguing against the practice per se, merely asking for the reasons behind it.

And thanks for telling me to "STFU" when, if you want to look at the question from the point of view of someone who actually wants to learn something about the world, you'll realize that the burden of proof is on the person who is pro-tipping, not con. And bonus points for then saying that *my* viewpoint is the convoluted one.

Perhaps someone may be against tipping on principle because he thinks the casino/cardroom should pay their dealers a better wage so as not to require such a relatively awkward practice?

As far as dealer quality goes, let's just run through a quick common-sense kindergarten economics cram session: Assume everybody in every card room stops tipping instantaneously. What happens? Dealers either a) complain to their boss, or b) quit. The boss does nothing until the situation affects his current or potential business negatively (as would any other businessman). If people were to somehow continue not tipping, the boss would either pay the dealers more (and increase the rake proportionately), or in some other way "require" a gratuity (which is the exact same thing as increasing the rake proportionately). The quality of dealers will not go down to intolerable levels because (again, getting back to simple fingerpaint-and-graham-crackers economics) if they were, players would stop playing at that location, the cardroom would lose business, and they'd take measures to get the quality back up (paying the dealers more for extra training, probably) to get the players back. But hey, common sense is so convoluted - "everybody else is doing it" is much more logical. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

But no, my lot is to STFU because you don't want to hear it, but your opinion comprised of literally nothing more than appeals to popularity and ad hominems is perfectly fine - after all, where else are we to find the fuel with which I am to be "flamed"?

[tylerdurden]

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And thanks for telling me to "STFU"

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Actualy, the "you" in that part of the post was supposed to be the people who try to argue that tipping is bad.

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when, if you want to look at the question from the point of view of someone who actually wants to learn something about the world, you'll realize that the burden of proof is on the person who is pro-tipping, not con. And bonus points for then saying that *my* viewpoint is the convoluted one.

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OK, fine. The onus is on me. You should tip because you're using the services of the dealer and tipping is how they get paid for their services. That's the fact of the matter. Now if you want to argue that this situation should be changed, the onus is on YOU to provide the justification.

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As far as dealer quality goes, let's just run through a quick common-sense kindergarten economics cram session:

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No, let's not. Like I said, this EXACT thread has already been posted, over and over and over again. Go search and read the old posts.

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But no, my lot is to STFU because you don't want to hear it

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Actually, I don't want to hear it, and I wasn't telling YOU to STFU then, but I am now. STFU. We've heard it. And if you go back and READ the old posts, you'd probably be surprised at my position on the "economics" of the situation.

[Jordan Olsommer]

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The onus is on me. You should tip because you're using the services of the dealer and tipping is how they get paid for their services. That's the fact of the matter.

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If you don't tip a dealer, the dealer does not stop dealing you cards. If you do not pay for food in a restaurant (which is how the restaurant gets paid for its services), then you get arrested and the restaurant most certainly stops serving you food. If you can't see the difference between these two scenarios, then I really don't know what to say - I guess you'll just have to rely on clever internet chatroom acronyms to be the crux of your arguments from now on.

[andyfox]

It's simply the accepted practice. Tipping waitresses may have started as something done To Insure Prompt Service, but it is no longer the case.

[Burno]

FWIW, Tips does not stand for To insure prompt service or anything like that.

Would you like to know more?

http://www.snopes.com/language/acronyms/tip.htm

[bpb]

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The only reasons I can see why people tip dealers are therefore a) not to look cheap in front of the other players (social pressure); and/or b) empathy or pity (arising out of a concern because they realize that dealers rely heavily on tips, in which case that makes for a very interesting contrast - the cold-hearted poker player who'd bust his own grandmother if she got into a pot with him, yet feels compelled to toss a piece of each pot he wins to someone who agreed to work for X an hour on his own volition with the understanding that tips may or may not come).

Any thoughts on this?

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It's a tipping profession.

Why do you tip the bartender who gives you a PBR but not the cashier at the Dunkin Donuts who gives you your coffee?

Why do you tip the pizza delivery guy, but not the cable TV repairman?

The cardroom pays the dealer minimum wage, and the implicit understanding is that players' tips will bring the total compensation up to a respectable hourly wage.

Personally, I'd rather see the rake raised to $5/pot, give the dealers a good base pay, and eliminate dealer tipping. But as long as they're getting minimum wage, I toss a $1 on every pot I win.

I think it's a good question though, and one that should be able to be asked and discussed with idiots chiming in with "you're a cheapskate".