Wierd Scenario

[The Dude]

During my just-finished Vegas trip, for about 4 hours I found myself in a rather odd situation. We had the Rock going, and two complete maniacs that would blind -3bet and -4bet any two in Rock hands. Needless to say, it was the best 20-40 game I've ever played in.

I had an interesting conversation with several 2+2ers about what hands you should be playing in this type of game, and the responses were VERY different. So here's the scenario:

Aside from the Rock straddle, the blind 3-bet, and the blind 4-bet, it's folded to you on the button. There's a 5-bet cap in Vegas. What are the weakest hands you are playing, and are you ever not 5-betting?

[DeezNutz3]

Ill take a stab...I would 5 bet if I played a hand and I would do so w/ AJ or 88 or better. I might do something a little different, but I am interested to see what others say. BTW, what casino was it in?

[The Dude]

This was at The Mirage, between about 4am and 8am.

[Peter_rus]

I would consider them as they just limped in. And 5-bet every hand that i would raise after 2 loose limpers on a button. And call every hand i would call after 2 limpers on a button except those which don't have ability to catch good flop more than 23-27% of time (so i would muck 22-66 but call QJs for e.g.).

This game would have large swings but i think it's the best way to maximize profit from them.

If they also overaggressive postflop i would call with low pairs also.

[Barry]

That is very strange.

Usually my approach in a "normal" rock game, if there is such a thing, is if I'm 1st to act or it's folded to me any hand that I would raise in the position I'm in, I would 3-bet anything else I would fold.

So without thinking it through, I would probably take the same approach, if I didn't want to 5-bet it, I would fold, however, since you will never steal the rock and blind raises, I would probably need an EP raising hand.

Perhaps that might be too tight, but that's how I would start out

[Michael Davis]

Interesting that in the type of game described S&M advocate an extremely tight strategy. I generally disagree with this. I would play A9s or better, AJo or better, KQ-KJs, and pairs 77 or higher. I would go to the river with all of them.

A huge factor is whether they are also playing maniacally postflop.

Frankly, I don't think it matters much if you 5-bet or not.

-Michael

[The Dude]

[ QUOTE ]
Usually my approach in a "normal" rock game, if there is such a thing, is if I'm 1st to act or it's folded to me any hand that I would raise in the position I'm in, I would 3-bet anything else I would fold.

So without thinking it through, I would probably take the same approach

[/ QUOTE ]
There a bunch of problem hands in this approach. Folded to me on the button I'm raising things like 44, T9s, 87s, Q9o, that - while perhaps still correct to play - will play very differently with several opponents for 5 bets.

[Clarkmeister]

Give me ATo, twenty chips, and let's have a party!

[The Dude]

Careful, Clark. Saying it like that, you might give some unsuspecting 2+2'ers the impression that's the lowest offsuit A your'e playing there.

[pianist]

I'd treat it as any "wild game". All pairs, suited connectors down to 65, suited gappers down to 97 or so, AKo, AQo, KTs, Q9s. Everything else go bye-bye. It's strictly value, Dude. Strictly value. Don't go getting all tactical in a game like this or calling with crap thinking you can "outplay" them after the flop. Play hands with solid preflop equity that can stand the heat postflop. The pots are going to be so big that even short-handed, you don't have to get involved with marginal values.

Minimum five-betting requirements are the Big Four: AA, KK, QQ, AKs. Otherwise, call to keep the fish in and give them a chance to reraise on their own, which might give you some useful information. Raising here with weaker hands mostly adds variance without increasing profit, unless there are many players in the pot, and raises have no tactical value whatsoever in this sort of game.

Q: Does the five-bet cap apply when the straddle is on?

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