You guys keep telling me to play faster . . .

[ALL1N]

I think you are seriously missing value if you continually bet into preflop raisers. You are essentially giving away the effective positional advantage of being able to check the flop knowing the you'll be nearly always be able to put in a raise.

I feel that betting into the raiser should be made situationally.

[Guido]

I guess you aren't raised as often as I am. Most of the time I'm the preflop raiser and when I'm not I probably have top pair weak kicker in which case I prefer betting too. It doesn't happen very often that I've TPGK and I didn't raise preflop. I also said that I was talking in general, it's not that I never check-raise. I do it a lot but it's such a strong move that it's pretty easy to read. I think you are missing value when you continually check-raise. Just try it and you will be amazed about how often you get a chance to 3-bet.

Guido

[ALL1N]

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I also said that I was talking in general, it's not that I never check-raise. I do it a lot but it's such a strong move that it's pretty easy to read.

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I don't see how it's any easier to read than a bet. To me, checkraising a preflop raiser with bottom pair or a draw (in a 3-way pot) seems a much stronger play than betting out. When I checkraise I could be doing with with a draw, a weak pair/ace/bluff, or a strong hand. Because I do it with a range of hands, it doesn't really make me easier to read. It just seems a waste to not use the knowledge that a bet is almost certainly coming to advantage.

[Guido]

Well maybe you are one of the few exceptions but most of the time a check-raise means a strong hand. I'm not so sure if check-raising with buttom pair is the right action very often. Betting out is a better action most of the time I think. It's true that check-raising is a very strong move and because it means monster a lot of the time I don't want to tell that to them. That's why I would prefer betting out with a lot of hands and 3-betting with strong draws and strong hands. You also don't risk giving a free card although most of the time the PFR will bet out. An other disadvantage is that when you check-raise the flop, most of the time that will kill your action on the turn. But when you bet out and 3-bet you do get action because they think you have top pair but not a monster because they would never play a monster this way. So you get more money on the flop most of the time, you disguise your hand better, you keep them guessing, you don't risk giving a free card and you get more action on the turn. When you check-raise with a wide range of hands that's fine but because of the reasons I gave above, I prefer betting and 3-betting a lot of the time. At the end you said "It just seems a waste to not use the knowledge that a bet is almost certainly coming to advantage." Just try and see how often you will be raised and take advantage from that. Check-raising just because it's a strong move doesn't make it the best action. Of course you should check-raise a lot too but with a set I prefer playing it fast.

Thanks,

Guido

[kiddo]

Dont know how much I have won betting a flopped flush on flop from early position and then bet/raise all way. Most players will play hard on a 3flush flop with toppair or 2pair to punish the draws, and slowplay a flopped flush. When you bet first in they will put you on anything but the flush. First when you raise again on turn they will start to think: oh no, did he flop it after all, have to call him down to see.

[Guido]

You and I think alike...

[MAxx]

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You and I think alike...

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that's me too. i lead at a lot of flops so that i can 3bet. i favor that over c/r a good bit of the time.

I tend to use a c/r on the flop more if i am attempting to isolate a lp flop lead.

Relative position depenent, sometimes the c/r is a superior move to build a pot on the flop for a draw.

i almost always lead a flopped flush and almost always get action. the times i dont, i figure that i probably wouldnt have gotten much action even if i slowplayed it.