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Old 09-06-2004, 06:20 AM
PokerFoo PokerFoo is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1
Default Theorem of poker

For years I have avoided certain player types that I know I have trouble playing against. It has always been easier to just find a table with the player types I know my game is good against. Since I started playing more online than in the brick and mortars, I have found it increasingly difficult to avoid the types I dont like and it has motivated me to learn some new theory and play styles.

I have always faired better at reasonably tight tables than loose tables. It's easier to control the odds and use semi-bluffs, check raises and slowplays. Preffering being heads-up or having at the most a 3 way pot is where I feel my game has always been best.

At the 2/4 3/6 level where I usually play, I run into a lot of games where players seeing the flop is often upwards of 75%. More and more frequently, in fact. This is where my profites tend to be break-even or be very small at best.

After re-reading The fundamental theorem of poker, I have a few situations I would like to discuss so I can better handle these situations when I can't avoid them.

In limit holdem with 10 players-
You are on the button with Ac Ah.
UTG limpes in and is raised by UTG+1. 5 players cold call 2 bets to you.
Would it not be correct, according the the theorem, to fold your aces? If you call or raise, everyone will stay in the hand to see the flop. This would effectivly mean you are laying odds to any 2 suited cards or any connectors, which are likely in the field. By playing this way consistantly over time, you would loose money. Essentially you would be the imbecile giving 2 to 1 on the coin flip would you not?

Lets say you call or raise in this situation and everyone stays in. The flop is As 6h 4s. Early position bets and is then raised. The rest of the field calls to you. would it again not be correct to fold your set according the the theorem? Raising will not thin the field in any signifigant way and likely only lay better odds against your set for the rest of the hand. Over time, I see more flushes and straights panning out in this situation than Aces full.

Lets say your at the same table but UTG. You hold the same 2 aces. Would it not be correct to fold them UTG? If you make it 2 bets, you can be 99% sure of getting called by about 7 of the ten players. This would be putting yourself in the same situation of laying odds to the other hands over time wouldnt it? You'd see bad beat after bad beat time and time again wouldn't you?

Now I ask this.

Your at the same table, your UTG with some suited connector or even a suited 1 gap. Your 99% sure a raise will get you about 7 of the ten players at the table. Theres a good chance it may even be capped pre-flop with everyone staying in. Are these hands, in this situation, more valuable over time than the aces or any other big pocket pair? If I understand the theorem correctly they would be. But then that would contradict the assumption that when the table is very loose a good player will tighten up.

-If- all this is correct, just how loose pre-flop should a good player become at these table types? Obviously Ax suited is getting good odds from any position but what about connectors and suited gaps? Is it profitable to regularly play them out of position in these situations? Or am I better off just observing for an hour and waiting for the table to settle down or new blood to come in?

If I am way off base in my understanding here please let me know.
Sound advice is what I need.
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