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Old 04-08-2004, 12:32 PM
Jay Jay is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 14
Default Zee\'s H/LSPFAP Guidance on preflop play

Recently I've been bitten by the O/8 bug and decided to do some more research on this game. I picked up Zee's H/L Split Poker For Advanced Players and read other articles by reputable sources and found quite a few differences of opinion concerning starting hand values and preflop raising. I'm especially interesed in loose lower limit ($10-20 or less) O/8 games and the following advice I believe is slated towards these games.

Basically Zee stresses playing tight gets you the money. “When playing low limit O/8 if you are simply the tightest player both before and on the flop you have a significant edge.” I assume this means selective?

However he goes on to say the that most hands are not that dissimilar in value before the flop and that raising pre-flop does not add significantly to your advantage which contradicts advice that one should raise with better hands preflop and that starting hands do vary tremendously. I quote the following from Zee's book:

“Concept 7: …Most of the preflop raising in this game is done strictly to knock out players behind you, that is, the buy the button. Raising before the flop to get more money in the pot is normally not the best strategy…

Concept 9: A lot of raising before the flop adds marginally to your profits, but add tremendously to your fluctuations. This should be obvious, as many hands are not that dissimilar in value.

Concept 10: When you start jamming early, you add only a little bit to your edge, unless some terrible players are in the pot. There is a great deal of luck between your starting hand and the flop in O/8, especially if other players in the pot might be playing a hand similar to what you hold.”


However there are sources that stress the opposite. I quote the following from a reputable source (Steve Badger):

“Omaha Poker Strategy – Introduction to Omaha Holdem Strategy. Starting hands exist before the flop, which is where you get enormous edges in Omaha against a field… …Omaha has a fairly large group of hands that will win at double the rate of randomish hands. Only playing good starting hands and raising before the flop with many of them, is the basics of winning in loose-game, low to middle limit Omaha[/8].

…The thing to “loosen up” in such a game [referring to a loose game] is to want to play for a raise most hands you play. In tight games, calling when someone limps in front of you is often the right play. In a loose game, raising is usually the correct play because you are playing a hand with the way best of it.

Omaha Myths - Myth “Omaha Starting hands Run Close Together in Value” This is the silliest myth of them all, especially when it comes to real game conditions.

Myth “Don’t Raise before the flop” In most Omaha/8 games a critical and basic concept is to get more money in before the flop when you have the way best of it. The most obvious profit in O/8 comes from opponents calling on the turn when drawing dead. This happens reasonably often but the profit that occurs every single hand, the most common way to create a profitable edge is to exploit the dramatically different pre-flop value of O/8 starting hands. …If a huge part of O/8 is starting hands, then aggressively betting your hands before the flop should be an obvious conclusion (with some exceptions depending on the situation).”

I don't wish to create conflict although this board has seen its share of them. I simply want some guidance as it is apparent to me there are some differences of opinion on starting hand values and raising pre-flop. Who am I to disagree with Zee, but I feel that it is to my advantage to get more money in the pot pre-flop, exploiting a larger edge with better starting hands that will be much better than my opponents and getting the best of it. Maybe I'm missing Zee's point - I don't know. Any guidance would be greatly appreciated.

Jay


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