damn you, clarkmeister

[jba]

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If you feel you have to call the river bet then betting out is clearly better. However you might be able to find a c/f here given your read. It's disturbing that so many in this thread feel you are trying to push this guy off a hand rather than stop a check through (one consequence of the split?).

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you say absolutely nothing in this post to support your claim that betting is "clearly" better. How about at least a hand range, or some logic behind your reasoning? I would like you to mention a couple of hands in his range that could possibly call our value bet --- this is what you mean when you say you want to stop a check-through, right? your condescension is worse for this forum than people discussing pushing weak hands to fold, IMHO, though I agree with you that isn't happening here at least they give some reasoning.

Here's my reasoning for liking a check/call. We 3bet preflop, and then called a raise on a four straight turn. I think our turn call tightens up our range quite a bit from villains perspective and he's going to think we're on some kind of a draw (boat or flush) or a J-hi straight. the only boat draw we can reasonably have is TT. In other words as soon as that last club hits we have the worst possible hand that villain could put us on. another way to word this is that villain fears us much more than he would if could see our hand.

the point of the clarkmeister bet is usually to get value from hands that we beat that are going to cowardly check behind. However in some circumstances there may be more hands that beat us that check behind than hands we beat that check behind, and in those cases we can often save a bet.

if villain has a J-hi straight here, the only hand he can get value from if he bets is TT

I think if villain is smart he's checking behind straights and Q/J high flushes. This is a lot of bets we save by check/call. The tradeoff is we might miss bets from worse hands that will call our bet but check behind. do such hands exist though??? I submit there are many less like that than there are Jx hands that are going to check behind for us.