Dummy needs help with poker basics!

[amoeba]

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Depends on stacks. With any semblance of deep stacks I would rather have JJ in position than QQ out of position.

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This, to me is the crux of the problem, EV from turn to river when AQ hits. If I was AQ out of position and check called the flop when a Q hit and blank hit the turn I would bet, because I know a check is likely to mean a bet and a tough decision. I believe there is some chance JJ would call, and that's EV.

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I do not like posting in this thread as I feel this issue has gone on long enough but I will try to lay this to rest once and for all.

when you say things like "there is a chance JJ will call" and when mason says things like "when I check the flop with AQ, JJ bets all the time", you are assigning an action to your opponent which works to your favor.

This kind of statement invalidates your whole premise. Why does JJ have to bet the flop when an ace hits? why does JJ have to call your turn bet?

In otherwords, if you assign an optimal line to take with AQ, then you must assign an optimal line to take with JJ. in fact, Mason's line with AQ is so designed to work against JJ specifically that it gets killed against other hands in JJ's range. example : according to Mason's line, he would check call with AQ on a KQx flop. notice how every action made by the player with AQ seems like it is done with premonition of player B's holding of JJ.

When you make a comparison of hand strengths, you must have all other variables equal, like strength of players.

but your arguments center around the AQ player being able to get away from AJX, QJx, AQJ boards for only 1 bet but the JJ player unable to get away from AXX, QXX boards for less than 2 bets.

notice how biased this is. It seems intuitively obvious that it is easier to get away with JJ from AXX or QXX than AQ from AJX or QJX, especially AJX boards as AQ feels that he has outflopped 2 hands in JJ holders range, KK and QQ.

yet you persist in not giving additional value to JJ when it flops a set but giving additional ev to AQ when it hits a pair.

notice when El diablo or some of the other posters make a point, they use the examples and numbers used by mason , while you come up with new conditions to make your argument work. This is not good debating technique.