Heads-up/Short-handed Limit Holdem (long post)

tereg · #1 10-14-2005, 02:21 AM

Hey everyone, I'm going to be touching on a lot of different things in this post, so please, try to be patient since I'm trying to work all of this stuff out.

What I'm wanting is some input from players that are either props that can multi-table short-handed or people that are familiar with Limit Holdem concepts on short tables.

The stakes that I'm really targeting is 2/4... but I'm pretty sure this can be equally applied to 1/2, 3/6 and 4/8.

Basically, my question goes something like this. I've been having an extremely bumpy run at 2/4 playing shorthanded. And really, my instincts tell me that the bumpy run is just the natural variance do to the escalated number of decisions you have to make over a given period of time. Making more decisions than its full-table counterpart is going to cause a lot more fluctuation. However, at some point, there is pause for concern because when I analyze a sample of about 8000 hands (which, granted, is not really THAT many hands)... When I see consistent losing, I start to wonder if I'm just making too many poor decisions.

Before I get into specific hand situations, I want to point out some things that I'm curious about, but I'm not sure if it really contributes to the problem I think I'm having. When I play full tables (again, limit holdem), a lithums test that I use to kind of tell how things are flowing is my Won % at Showdown stat. Barry Greenstein said something I tend to agree with about limit holdem, in that, it tends to be a showdown game. You play hands that will tend to win at showdown. When I play full tables, my Won % at Showdown, just in general, tends to be in the 60% range. But when I'm playing Short-handed and heads up, this number is alarmingly less (due to the fact that you must play a wider range of hands in this particular situation).... but I wonder sometimes... how much emphasis should I put on that stat on short-handed tables, because, I often find that particular stat in the 35-45% range.... usually the sessions that are turning sour, where my hands are not holding up. And that kind of bothers me, because, if you are playing at a place that GENERALLY has loose calling stations, I find that the best counter-strategy against loose calling stations is to bet out your made hands and showdown with made hands (a straightforward approach). And if during the course of playing a series of hands against a certin player I find that they tend to be passive more often than aggressive, I would feel that I would have to showdown fairly often against them... i.e. I'm not going to be able to force them out of many pots pre-showdown.

Of course, that is a general case, like, for instance, if you are playing against someone tighter, that will only bet or raise with made hands, you can force them out of pots... OR... if you are playing someone loose and aggressive, you can show down more inferior hands (like A-high on a ragged board).... but of course, these are generic strategies against generic characterizations. And I say that because in heads-up/short-handed, you have to be able to see how your opponents are adjusting throughout the course of the session and adjust the correct counter-strategy against them.

But anyways, back to the showdown point... let me give you some more stats...

When it's 3-handed, on the button, I will tend to go to showdown about 30% when I have seen the flop. When I do see the flop, I win some money about 55% of the time after the flop (whether it goes to showdown or not), and at showdown, I win money about 45% of the time.

And, really, those stats aren't that much different than when I'm on a full table (at least with the went to showdown when I see the flop piece). But again, I ask the question, if I am generally seeing a fairly loose/passive kind of player, is it correct to rely on showing down rather than trying to steal pots away (and, as a result, if the showdowns are failing me, is it just something I have to grind out where knowing that if I play cards that will generally beat two random cards, say, against a player whose possible holdings are anything but the absolute worst hands... 23o, 24o, 25o, 26o, etc. that it eventually will work in my favor against that particular type of player.)

Ok now to specific situations...

Of course, my goal when I play short-handed is to make as many correct decisions as I can within the session. Because of the elevated number of decisions I have to make, that has to be priority for me to win at this in the long-run. I bring this up because, I find that when I analyze sessions (not limited to the losing sessions, but I do tend to emphasize analyzing the losing sessions) I find that I'll make maybe 3 or 4 mistakes in a two-hour period... sometimes more...

What I do when I analyze specific sessions or runs is I look at the hands where I lost the most money to find out where my mistakes are... for instance:

[ QUOTE ]

Absolute Poker 2/4 Hold'em (4 handed) converter

Preflop: tereg is SB with T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 1 fold, tereg completes, BB raises, UTG calls, tereg calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
tereg checks, BB bets, UTG folds, tereg calls.

Turn: (4 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
tereg checks, BB bets, tereg raises, BB 3-bets, tereg caps, BB calls.

River: (10.75 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
tereg bets, BB raises, tereg calls.

Final Pot: 14.25 BB

Results below: 
tereg has Td 5d (flush, king high).
BB has Ad Qd (flush, ace high).
Outcome: BB wins 14.25 BB. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Here, I can point out a few mistakes that I made. I think here that check-raising the turn was mostly incorrect... although, check-raising might not be as bad of a play as capping was. If I put him on top pair, but only one diamond (like AQo or KQo), it might have shut him down. My capping on the turn was certainly incorrect. It probably would have been best to just bet out the turn to see where I was. If I'm raised on the turn, in hindsight with this kind of hand, I would probably call and act accordingly to what the river is. However, with the river being what it was, I might have bet out again after the river.

So here, in my estimation, I've made a 2 big bets worth of mistakes in this hand.

And then there are hands that aren't quite as clear, like this one:

[ QUOTE ]

Absolute Poker 2/4 Hold'em (3 handed) converter

Preflop: tereg is SB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, tereg completes, BB raises, tereg calls.

Flop: (4 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
tereg checks, BB bets, tereg raises, BB calls.

Turn: (4 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
tereg bets, BB raises, tereg 3-bets, BB caps, tereg calls.

River: (11 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
tereg checks, BB bets, tereg calls.

Final Pot: 13 BB

Results below: 
tereg has 8c 9h (two pair, nines and eights).
BB has 2h 2c (three of a kind, twos).
Outcome: BB wins 13 BB. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Here, I wanted to fast play with a vulnerable top two with a straight draw and flush draw on the board. On the turn... I felt that maybe that the raise on the turn indicated a possible pair+flush draw combination... so, 3-betting the turn, at least at first glance, does not seem that wrong. Folding would have been ridiculous. When I get capped.. I felt the pot was simply too large to forfeit without a showdown.

And then... there are hands like this:

The BB I recall from this hand was extremely loose and aggressive, liked to raise and re-raise preflop with a wide range of hands, and very aggressive post-flop as well. So I knew that if I could showdown a top pair/good kicker I would catch him.

[ QUOTE ]

Absolute Poker 2/4 Hold'em (3 handed) converter

Preflop: tereg is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, tereg raises, BB 3-bets, tereg caps, BB calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
tereg bets, BB raises, tereg 3-bets, BB calls.

Turn: (6.50 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
tereg bets, BB raises, tereg 3-bets, BB calls.

River: (11.50 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
tereg checks, BB bets, tereg calls.

Final Pot: 13.50 BB

Results below: 
tereg has Ad Jc (two pair, aces and jacks).
BB has Ks 3c (straight, ace high).
Outcome: BB wins 13.50 BB. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Against an extremely aggressive player, I felt I played this hand fine. Even on the river... the pot is laying me 12.5:1... the pot is just too large to forfeit to one bet.

It's hands like these 3 (and, of course, there are a lot of them that I can spot) that just makes me question IF I can learn from the mistake hands, and when things are really crappy, hands like hand #3 just take the wind out of my sails.

I honestly feel that my approach to playing shorthanded and heads up is a good one... I feel that I can read patterns well enough to know what a player's tendency is. And I also feel that I understand generally what specific counter-strategies work against different types of players. If you are wondering, I have read through Jason Pohl's Short-Handed articles on PokerPages.com: http://www.pokerpages.com/articles/a...content=1#pohl

The advice he gives is definitely a good foundation for what I typically do in shorthanded games.

But again, I find that when I enter a session with the attitude of making as few mistakes as possible against my opponent just really isn't cutting it.

When my trendline looks like this:

Granted, it's only 6000 hands... that's not really a large sample size... but it concerns me because of the amount that I've dropped in that short time. That's why I feel like I have to post this, because, I feel like this is a problem that's more than just simply a bad run... there's something else going on.

I understand that the problems I might be having are most-likely multi-dimensional... which is why this post was so difficult to write. My problems might be coming from preflop play, post-flop play, my general stop strategy when I've dropped a certain amount of big bets on a single table.

I recall David Tuchman (on Live at the Bike) referring to an interesting point, specifically about limit holdem. I remember he said something to the effect of, if he's winning 65% of his sessions, then he's doing really well. When he isolates single sessions, ideally, if he wins while playing limit holdem, he wants to be up big. In other words, being up big for his current session instead of focusing on just being up at the end of a session for the stats.

I often find that a lot of my winning sessions are very marginal (like, I'll be up 10 big bets, 15 big bets at the end of a session before I take a break) But my losing sessions can be as steep as 40 big bets before I take a break from the pounding. I haven't really been able to have what I would call "break-out" sessions.... where I'll finish a session up even as little as 30 big bets before I finish.

And especially with the nature of heads up and short handed, I find it's difficult to "play catch-up".... like, with the swings as they are, I might find myself in a 10 big bet hole after 10 minutes.

Now, some of you might just suggest to me to play at levels I'm comfortable with. 2/4 is a level that I'm comfortable with. But my attitude in making this post is one that knows that despite the large variance in short handed limit holdem, that short handed can be beat long-term. I know that I can beat it... I know I have the skills to beat it. It's just a matter of fine-tuning what I learn from my mistakes and recalling my experiences in future play that will determine my successes.

If any of you guys have any input, or suggestions, or maybe a poker coach that maybe specializes in this type of holdem, I would greatly appreciate it. If you want me to elaborate more on any of my points, please don't hesitiate to ask me, I'll be more than willing to share as much as I can. I mean, if that's what it takes to learn and to beat it, then I'll do it.

Thanks again!