If There Is No God

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...understanding of how to measure spirituality or morality

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If you measure something you do so by a standard. Measurement in morality is by a moral standard.

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Some things may be measurable just not measurable by us at present.



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No; if math exists with or without God, that does not necessarily exclude the possibility of God.

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I define God as the Being Who existed before anything else and created everything else that exists. If anything else exists apart from God's creating activity He isn't God.To posit math as self-existent is to deny God.

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Even taking your definition at face value does not preclude the possibility of mathematics having the property of capability of independent existence. The obvious counterexample is that of God creating something with the property of henceforth being able to exist independently of him: God could have created mathematics as a permanent and immutable framework which would be capable of existing even in his absence.

God could also have created a moral or spiritual framework with the capacity to exist on its own.

Alternatively, if God does not exist, these frameworks might still exist. Mathematical truths clearly exist even without humans to observe that 2 bananas + 2 bananas = 4 bananas. Just because we humans cannot at present so clearly see, define or measure a spiritual or moral framework does not prove that it does not exist.


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... Just because you or I can't determine it empirically at present

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You can never determine morality empirically, by definition. Morality is "ought". Ought can't be measured scientifically.

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Change your "never" to "at present" and I would agree for the most part.

Just for fun, imagine that at the end of the universe, time stands still and all events are somehow retraced and reconstructed, and analyzed exhaustively. Perhaps then every act that ever occurred could be assigned a measurement based on its morality and spirituality.