How to fold overpairs? Help me learn!

[ericlambi]

I have a huge problem folding overpairs, and to a lesser extent, TPTK. To me, the issue is that by the time I have enough information to feel that I'm beat, the pot odds are great enough relative to my stack size that I feel committed. Here is an example (made up) from 6 max . . . teach me when and how to fold!

6 max, everyone has 50BB stacks
Hero is UTG with A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], raises to 4BB.
2 folds, CO calls, SB calls, BB folds.

Pot size pre-flop: 13BB. My stack: 46BB.

Flop: K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Not a terrible flop, not great. SB checks. Hero bets 10BB. CO folds. SB (min-)raises to 20BB.

Pot size at this point: 43BB. My stack: 36BB.

Now to me, this is decision time. The villain could have a ton of different hands in this position -- AK, KQ, KJ, QJ, two diamonds, or he could interpret your bet as standard continuation and just be testing you with some crap like AJ. Of course, you could be in trouble vs 44,TT, or even KK. It seems to me you are probably ahead at least 50% of the time here. Agree or disagree?

If you call the min raise, your stack size becomes 26BB and the pot now has 53BB. Even if the villain open pushes the turn, can you fold getting 3-1?

Raising doesn't help much, even a min-raise leaves you with a tiny stack and a huge pot -- you can't fold the hand at any future point after this.

So when and how do you get away from this hand (or do you)?

The same dilemma comes if the villain calls your flop bet, the turn is a blank, and he checks to you. You cannot make a meaningful bet without pot committing can you?

What if the flop is slighly less scary, say

T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

or even if it is completely drawless:

Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

How does the decision change?

Does the villain's c/r size matter? If it is all-in versus a min-raise, does that change anything? What about somewhere in between -- 25BB?


I just can't figure out how to get away from these hands with the given stack sizes. Admittedly, the problem isn't quite as bad if you only go to the flop with 2 players, meaning you start from a smaller pot size.

Any general advice about how and when you get away from these hands? I'd love to hear it!

Thanks,

Eric