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Old 09-18-2005, 06:56 PM
SheetWise SheetWise is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 841
Default About Nothing.

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Cyrus. Casino people or players often refer to a casino's gross monthly earnings as its hold.

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That's correct -- they often do. That's probably why WoO's definition added ...
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There is a lot of confusion between the house edge and hold, especially among casino personnel.

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He could have added, between Win and Hold as well as between Drop and Handle.

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Note that the UNLV paper makes it a point to write always Hold Percentage.

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I noticed, but on the other side of the equal sign they show a fraction -- I'm not sure what their point was other than to point out that the fraction could be reduced to a percentage. Conversationally, I've never heard it referred to as Hold percentage, just as a number.

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The clarification between Win Percentage and Hold Percentage should have been made.

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It was. Just below the section you quoted, after the explanation of how it could be used.

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SheetWise. Your inclusion of the sentence "At table games, a drop box is used to collect the money." leads me to believe that whoever wrote this, their experience is limited to slot machines.

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Cyrus. "Whoever wrote this" most probably only meant to make a distinction, in the entry for Drop, between the term Drop and the term Drop Box.

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I said that because they also confused Handle and Drop, which most slot departments historically considered to be the same thing.

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...If I recall correctly, we are currently merrily arguing the merits of the BJ21.com glossary because of your understanding of the meaning of the terms House Advantage and Hold, and specifically how they can be altered by amazingly simple means! So, to steer this cow back to the trail, kindly point out to us the equations through which, by betting an additional amount of money on Odds, you are changing the house advantage on your Pass line bet.

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Nobody ever said the house advantage on the Pass line bet changed, although that hasn't stopped you from repeating the assertion several times. The overall advantage (expressed as a percentage), or Win % if you prefer, changes.

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You must think you're wreaking havoc to their Hold, right?

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The odds wagers shouldn't have any effect on the Hold. But because the odds wagers are part of the Handle, they reduce the Win %.

Again, your use of the phrase "wreaking havoc to their Hold" seems to miss the point of what the Hold is, what it means, how and why it's used. It's simply the percentage of the cash you brought to the game that I earned when you leave.

When I look at the books of a club, the Hold is the one number I want to pay closest attention to -- comparing table to table, shift to shift, month to month and club to club. As a metric, it gives me an incredible amount of information. It can tell me how personable a dealer is, if the players like the music being played by the lounge band, as well as draw a pretty accurate roadmap to the thieves. I'll leave it to you to figure that out. It's not just another number -- it's a number than can be quickly interpreted in some interesting ways.
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