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Old 09-02-2005, 11:21 AM
Gamealot Gamealot is offline
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Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 5
Default On the Edge Part VII

Some things I am wondering about this article:
1. The premise about the implied odds validating the raise seems to be lacking the analysis to prove it...yes the player hit the implied odds here but only because the cards came out just about perfect. Btw I am not talking about the implied odds once the reraise is done - that is straightforward. The murky waters here (for me at least) are the implied odds at the MOMENT of the reraise. We can include the cards that give the near nut flush in this category of winners, but what about all the other cards that dont? And the ones that give you that top pair and then you get to guess about your kicker - which according to the players own read is very likey not good? When you play all those eventualities out is the reraise profitable? Not so sure...perhaps David Slansky will read this and crunch the numbers hehe
2. The analsysis given would apply to most any two suited conectors (given different flops that lead to draws) and the advice seems to boil down to "put chips in early so you have pot odds to draw later" which in the long run can't possibly work out because at the moment of the reraise into the intial raise and all those callers - the cards your holding are behind and the fact that others are behind as well doesn't change that. The concept of driving out the other rabble even though you are behind because it improves your odds of beating the leader doesnt seem to apply here - you have a K high with a shot at the nuts - if you knew exactly how those cards were going to fall (the way they actually did) you would want to bring everyone along because its more money you are going to take (from more players) when you hit the nuts (thinking here the expected value of all the extra hands that pay you is better than the ones that would have folded but stayed in and chopped the pot with you - which turns out in this case to be only another KQ which probaly doesnt fold at that point anwyay once they are in).

The point being here that this hand is going to either hit the nuts or near nuts or be a loser, and it really doesnt matter how many other hands are in play. If this is indeed the case then the best approach if you feel like gambling is call...if you get enough callers you can justify an implied odds gut shot draw after the flop otherwise run. But thrwoing your chips in blind BEFORE the flop so you can justify the gut shot (or flush) seems like a loser over all the hands that play out.
3. But if it does make sense and I have missed somethign then something like J-10 suited down to even 6-5 suited has the same value; heck if the raiser has AK you even got more live cards! Your still in it for the draw...I suppose as you go lower someone else might hit the better draw but you need to contrast that vs the likelihood that all that raising drove out the low cards which are your competition. And this brings us back to realizing that we are just plain playing loose calls doesnt it?

Just some thought hey I'm no expert probably missing some big points here....
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