Raise this flop?

[btspider]

yeah, the pot is borderline large. if it were 4 SB's, i'm fine with a call. if its 10 SB's, I'd be anti-call. both seem close.. but 8 SB's is closer to raise territory.

the T's and J's are a bit tricky here. obviously the T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] is clean and we only clean up half the T outs since it would generally be a split pot. so 1.5 outs of potential cleanup.. before discounting for catching and losing.

the J's are better since they can win the pot for us outright when they are cleaned up.

we won't be folding QJ/QT/T7 hands from anyone. and gutter + mid/bottom pair hands may call 2.. so actual out cleanup may only be around 2.5 - 3 outs total.. which is fairly significant since we have 2 streets to go.

note: some of losing in "catching and losing" in this can actually mean losing to our own hand. if we clean up the straight, catch on the turn, but hit the flush on the river, we didn't need to clean up the straight in the first place. i assume i'm doing this right [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] its late..