Interesting hand

cnfuzzd · #1 08-23-2004, 01:57 AM

Hum, i, of all people, during the middle of this hand thought i wasnt being aggressive enough. I felt i should raise more, or fold. I instead became a calling station. Let me know what you think

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. UTG posts a blind of $0.75.
UTG (poster) raises, 2 folds, MP1 calls, 1 fold, MP3 calls, CO calls, Button calls, 1 fold, Hero 3-bets, UTG caps, MP1 folds, MP3 calls, CO calls, Button calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (23 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
Hero bets, UTG raises, MP3 calls, CO calls, Button calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (16.50 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets, MP3 calls, CO raises $1.83 (All-In), Button calls, Hero calls, UTG calls, MP3 calls.

River: (25.65 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players, 1 all-in)
Hero checks, UTG bets $0.67 (All-In), MP3 folds, Button folds, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 26.99 BB
Main Pot: 25.65 BB, between CO, Hero and UTG.
Pot 2: 1.34 BB, between Hero and UTG.

peace

john nickle

btspider · #2 08-23-2004, 10:30 AM

if UTG wasn't close to being all-in, this would be a scary hand. since UTG is about to be all in.. PF could mean anything. check-raise the turn, UTG will be all-in and you'll get some more overlay from the passive players who you likely have beat.

actually betting out the turn might be better. if people call, you can consider 3-betting. if they fold, you isolate the iffy PF raiser.

EDIT: after more thought, i want to add more emphasis that I think betting the turn is correct. the pot is huge, spend that extra bet to try to fold MP3 and the Button.

papawawa · #3 08-23-2004, 10:41 AM

3-bet the flop to see where he's at. If its capped, I think you might be drawing dead to AK. CO coming alive on the turn can't be good either; maybe he spiked a set or 2 pair . . A3 seems like possibility. Tough one though I might be tempted to fold if both aggressors weren't all-in. In light of that, I think you played it well.

k000k · #4 08-23-2004, 10:53 AM

5way capped PF action? There's good hands out there. I expect to see some AA KK QQ AK AQ.. Note: most of these hands beat you! There are 5 opponents putting in a LOT of $$.. TPGK is ok, not great, you should definately NOT be adding more aggression to this hand..

The flop raise didn't make ANYONE fold, I wouldn't expect QQ or anyone without an A or K to call 2 cold here. Best case scenario: you're up against 5 weaker A's or K's.. And there's a whole bunch of worst case scenarios for you! There's several ways you're drawing dead or to 1 or 2 outs tops. There's a LOT to watch out for, any 2pair, any set, a straight, and a flush are all possible.

I try to call this down as cheaply as possible, and I fold if I don't improve and players start raising on the turn/riv.

k000k · #5 08-23-2004, 10:58 AM

[ QUOTE ]
3-bet the flop to see where he's at. If its capped, I think you might be drawing dead to AK.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is where some position could have REALLY helped.... If you 3bet and he calls, are you gonna lead out the turn? If it gets checked to you will you bet? He already raised you, and everyone cold called 2. You're probably beat already, but I still try to showdown cheap. I'd strongly consider folding the turn as well when it comes back 1.83 bets to me! THIN drawing ahead.....

cnfuzzd · #6 08-23-2004, 05:07 PM

I showed my AQ, and then severe muckage happened. CO had K4o, for the being stupid, and UTG had AJd, with the turned diamond draw. MHIG

Now that i have had a day to think about it, and coming back fresh to reevaluate, i think i need to evaluate several things. First, i dont think any of my opponents are folding here. Ever. this was a very loose passive table, as evidenced by the preflop action. Therefore, i think betting or raising as a semi-bluff is a no go. Therefore, since i am clearly not going to fold, a have to assume i am betting for value. I think if i had to replay this again, i would play the flop the same, because at that point i want to make people call two cold, not neccesarly because i think they will fold, but just because then they are more likely to be making a mistake by doing so. The turn i would go for the checkraise. Since i am clearly going to showdown 99% of the time here, i want this pot to be as large as possible to make up for the times when my hand is no good. I would checkraise the turn, and continue raising unless people started dropping out. I think checking the river could be one of the weakest moves i have EVER made: Huge pot, reasonable hand, i check, WTF? I would definitly bet this river 100% of the time in the future. So thats how that goes.

peace

john nickle

cnfuzzd · #7 08-23-2004, 05:11 PM

I think this would be incorrect given that the standard party player is not a reasonable, intelligent animal. It is loose, unthinking, uncritical, and unafraid. Never does this beast ask about its own mortality, nor does it care about the sustenence of it life, namely money. Yes, seeing UTG flip over AA or AK would have been no big surprize, but, given the texture of the table i think it is false to assumes that there is a world full of monsters.

peace

john nickle

illunious · #8 08-23-2004, 05:41 PM

Since two players are severely short on chips, they get no credit for a hand. I would bet the turn counting on a raise that may put some pressure on MP3 and Button draws.

Normally, I would check the turn and hope for lots of action after me so I would have an easy fold.

Peter Harris · #9 08-23-2004, 06:20 PM

i 3-bet the flop and if called, lead the tuen.

if capped, i check-call one on the turn and check-fold 2 cold. With these players all-in it's probably worth going to the river, so be it if UTG had AK but i'd be inclined to believe AJs, JJ, TT are PF possibilities as well, and TT wouldn't put up that much fight on the flop.

Regards,
Pete Harris