50-100 - Is having a third nut good?

[Clarkmeister]

"HPFAP suggests you want a raised pot with three as well as two but don't want it with 4 or 5 (with JJ and TT)."

I've said it before and I'll say it again, this part of HPFAP is dead wrong unless you are playing against very tough opponents.

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
is 22 the 13th best hand in hold em?

[/ QUOTE ]

Was that supposed to be a joke, some sort of rip on Clarky's statement re: TT, or a serious question?

If the latter, no.

[Pipedream]

Ok folks, I'm not sure when this turned into a preflop debate. Not raising two Tens from EP in this game is pretty Special Olympics. I even raised 88 and ATs from utg. Like Clark said, I'll gladly let some corndogs pay 2 bets when I'm holding a great hand like Tens. Even if the whole table said, "hey, we're all going to call you if you raise here", I'de still raise it. It's my opinion that the people who opt not to raise with JJ or TT first in or after several limpers probably don't play postflop very well(and I guess preflop too). They have so much fear of that elusive overcard flopping that they choose to leave many bets on the table when they have the best of it.

Pipedream

[Ulysses]

With a UTG raise, in that game you'd either win the blinds or more likely, get involved with 4-5 players multiway. In my mind, not a good idea with TT, see HPFAP for a similar example on JJ.

OK. Here's the hold'em game. I get TT or JJ UTG every time and raise. Every time I either win the blinds or 4 to 5 players call my raise. I'm in.

[Diplomat]

Ok the pre-flop raise is clearly fine. Moving on.

With the third nut draw and a pair against this nut job, I'd call. The range of hands he could raise the flop is very wide, and as stated, he prefers to meekly call along with a nut or second nut draw. The only obvious hitch is that he probably would play a hand like AxJ[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] in a similar way.

What was the turn card? I think this hand could get interesting depending on what falls.

-Diplomat

[Pipedream]

Well I immediately put him on a made hand when he raised my flop bet. As I stated he played his draws up to this point very meekly. I would not have called a river bet without improvement.

Pipedream

[Gamblor]

No problem winning the blinds, and that certainly is enough to make raising worthwhile.

But when the cold-callers aren't totally out to lunch, i.e. calling with hands that have a reasonable shot against TT; QJs, AJs, KQ-type hands, and play reasonably after the flop, things change (obviously, you're hoping that they have each others' outs)

Most are also capable of laying down to a limp-reraise when it's two cold back to them, so in this case it's limp and limp-reraise if it's raised behind.

In a hand, I limp-reraised with 99 and got heads up against a ABC button, and won with a flop bet to a K32 flop.

Limp will give you huge implied odds because this wasn't a fear-the-limp-reraise-with-AA-type table; a limp will invite a limp-fest behind, but a raise will likely mean you have to survive the river unimproved often enough to make raising first in a bad idea.

This table was moderately loose preflop, tough postflop.

It all depends on the game you're in.

[Gabe]

Maybe he plays 99 really, really great.

[Gabe]

"This is a 3-way sim not 4-way. HPFAP suggests you want a
raised pot with three as well as two but don't want it with 4 or 5."

Don't go there.

[sleepyjoeyt]

I'm mostly a lurker and enjoy reading other's opinions, but I thought this last post was perfect.