Another Party hand with fellow 2+2er - Chasing that A to the river

[AliasMrJones]

Here is another hand from the table with another 2+2er, just a couple hands after he gave me the sign. He saw the flop on this hand as well and folded prior to the river on this one as well. We were still talking about the previous hand I posted as this hand began.

Party 2/4 9 handed.

Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

EP1 calls, EP2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, button folds, Hero completes and BB checks. 6 to the flop for 6 SB.

Flop comes: Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Hero checks, BB checks, EP1 bets, EP2 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, Hero calls, BB folds

T gives me the straight and A gives me top pair and I'm getting 9-1 so I call. 5 BB.

Turn is: 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Hero checks, EP1 now checks, MP1 wakes up and bets, MP2 calls, Hero calls, EP1 calls.

Same draw, now with 7 (or 8 when EP1 calls)-1.

River is : A:hearts:

Hero checks, EP1 checks, MP1 bets, MP2 folds, Hero raises, EP1 folds, MP1 calls.

Fellow 2+2er also had an A, but decided to fold on the flop and we talked about this one too. Comments?

[BaronVonCP]

Bad preflop call; bad the flop call.

A80 is pretty bad out of position.


An A on the turn or river gives anyone with JT, or KT a straight. Not what I call a clean out.

I am far from the authority, but I am not a fan of the play of this hand.

[BottlesOf]

How do you identify yourself to another 2+2er at the table. Do you just ask straight up? I'm not sure if that would impair my hourly rate. 2+2ers should have a secret handshake or something [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

[AliasMrJones]

The sign is "The brown trout sleeps in the closet." The counter-sign is "Yes, he does." (Or something close to that.)

[BottlesOf]

[MaxPower]

I think you should fold on the flop. You only have 3 clean outs and the pot is too small.

With a flop like this you just have to take seriously the chance that you will hit one of your outs and lose the pot. Even if you catch a non-heart ten on the turn, you can still be outdrawn.

If someone else has an ace, you can win half the pot at best, so your pots odds are not what they seem.

[AliasMrJones]

Bottles, I'm not making fun, that is the real sign and the one the 2+2 SS poster who sat at the table gave me. It originated in the Internet forum (otherwise known as the Zoo) so I think that should explain everything.

[BottlesOf]

Sorry, it just sounded so silly, but I guess that'll work. I wonder if enough people saw that post. I may just ask about SS or the zoo...

[Schneids]

No good. I do not like your calls at all. They're not only bad, but extremely bad... I don't like looking at the ace as an out, and for all you know you'll hit a ten on the turn and a flush gets made on the river. It's not that large of a pot so chasing really seems pointless when you are drawing to thin outs.

I am even more shocked that you check raised that river. That seems like foolish aggression unless you think the guy would bet an ace and fold it to a check raise, or perhaps would fold a ten out of fear of a flush (doubtful, maybe one in 500 players would here?)

[Ed Miller]

The problem, of course, is that you have several problems. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

1. Spiking an ace may easily not be an out at all
2. Spiking a ten may easily lead to a split pot
3. A heart on the turn or river (including the A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] or the T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]) could easily give someone a flush

You also have little in the way of implied odds because no one without an ace is giving you much action on a KQJT board. I probably would have folded on the flop... but I certainly would have folded on the turn.