A couple hands from 2+2 tonight

TheKentock · #1 11-16-2005, 11:31 PM

Basically there is a mix of people, some taking this table seriously, some raising with junk. I am here to work on my postflop play, hence the uber-blind-defense call in hand 1. I have only played about 20 hands tehre when these two occur in a short amount of time.

HAND 1
Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
3 folds, MP2 raises, 4 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, MP2 calls.

Turn: (3.25 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, MP2 raises, Hero calls.

River: (7.25 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 checks.

Final Pot: 7.25 BB

Ok, so I bet into him on the flop, since he most likely doesn't have a made hand yet. Then the big scare card hits on the turn. Does anyone else still bet this here? I don't want to give up aggression, because I can't justify calling down on both the turn and river with just a pair of 3s, but I fear he might try to push me off my hand on a bluff.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG raises, Hero 3-bets, 5 folds, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (9.50 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets, UTG calls, Hero raises, BB calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (7.75 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets, UTG folds, Hero calls.

River: (9.75 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 11.75 BB

What do we make of this turn donkbet? Are we going into calldown mode or are we raising again? surely not a fold, right?

istewart · #2 11-16-2005, 11:37 PM

I'd probably check/raise the flop in Hand 1. And I'd call the flop in hand 2.

McGahee · #3 11-16-2005, 11:59 PM

Hand #1 - looks like you were beaten by a middle PP and a well executed Free Showdown play. I don't think it matters what you do on the flop, but I really don't like bet/call on the turn too much. Not sure I love bet/fold either since he's frequently raising without an Ace. I like either a check/call since he's rarely taking a free card or a bluff 3-bet to push him off a PP; realistically the former since I don't have the guts to pull the latter.

Hand #2 - I'd raise the turn because he'd probably cap PF with a hand that beats you and it looks like he's just trying to prevent a free card.

TheKentock · #4 11-17-2005, 12:11 AM

Well, it's certainly possible that he has a mid-pp, especially considering the action that occurs afterward, but based solely on the information up to the turn card, isn't italso very possible that he had 2 overs to the flop? Of course, the fact that the most likely overcard hits the turn does shed some light on my potentially bad play there, but I don't think we can limit his range to only mid-PP at this point in the hand. After the raise, however, I can definitely see either a paired Ace, a mid-PP showdown play, or possibly even a weird bluff, since this was the 2+2 table. I think bet/fold may have been better there, depending on his tendency to bluff-raise on a scary turn card.

McGahee · #5 11-17-2005, 12:19 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Well, it's certainly possible that he has a mid-pp, especially considering the action that occurs afterward, but based solely on the information up to the turn card, isn't italso very possible that he had 2 overs to the flop? Of course, the fact that the most likely overcard hits the turn does shed some light on my potentially bad play there, but I don't think we can limit his range to only mid-PP at this point in the hand. After the raise, however, I can definitely see either a paired Ace, a mid-PP showdown play, or possibly even a weird bluff, since this was the 2+2 table. I think bet/fold may have been better there, depending on his tendency to bluff-raise on a scary turn card.

[/ QUOTE ]

Valid points - but again I don't think he's ever taking that free turn card even when he does have something like KJ. Morever, since he opened from MP - if he does have a an Ace it's probably not a big Ace in which case calling your turn bet would be a better play for him since you're going to be bet/folding this turn a lot without an Ace and 3-betting when you do have him beat; which would make me even more suspect of his turn raise.

bottomset · #6 11-17-2005, 01:45 AM

who were the villians, I don't remember which seat you were in ..

hand1: fold preflop, MP2 is still a fairly tight raising range, even for some of the more active ppl there

postflop I don't donkbet here, prob just check/call, sometimes c/r it .. depends a fair bit on who it is and how they have been playing postflop

hand2: this is a fairly loose3bet here as well

i just call the flop here

jaxUp · #7 11-17-2005, 01:53 AM

I am villain in hand 1. I think you should not donkbet the flop. More later.

jaxUp · #8 11-17-2005, 01:54 AM

nevermind

milesdyson · #9 11-17-2005, 01:56 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I am villain in hand 1. I think you should not donkbet the flop. More later.

[/ QUOTE ]
no, he shouldn't.

why tell you what he's doing before you act? he is basically giving up his position by betting that flop in that situation.

jaxUp · #10 11-17-2005, 02:00 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I am villain in hand 1. I think you should not donkbet the flop. More later.

[/ QUOTE ]
no, he shouldn't.

why tell you what he's doing before you act? he is basically giving up his position by betting that flop in that situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

Also, he will never have a 9 here, setting me up nicely. If a more advanced player made this play, I might think otherwise.