New to 6-max, not sure how clear cut this is

[PoBoy321]

Thanks soah, I always think you make very good, well thought-out, insightful posts.

Villain didn't show his hand, but I'm confident that I was beat, but I'm not sure how, which is something that's startingg to bother me about playing the shorthanded games. In the full ring games, I was much better able to put opponents on a specific hand than I am at 6-max, where it becomes much closer to "I think he has a top pair type of hand" or "I think he's on some kind of draw," as opposed to full ring where it's much easier to say "He's got KQ for 2 pair," or "He limp called and is giving a lot of action on a 7 high flop, he hit his set."

Anyway, this particular player wound up dumping most of his chips to the SB who, in turn, dumped most of his chips to me, which is another aspect of SH play that's taking some adjusting, where you're not just playing each pot, but you're playing a full game and following the money as it moves around the table and you have to manage who does and doesn't come into a pot.

Switching from full-ring to 6-max, I think, has become a little bit more of a guessing game that I'm just going to have to get used to.

[pzhon]

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I just don't know what check/calls that flop and leads the turn.

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There are quite a few possibilities: JT, J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] x[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], a set that didn't feel threatened on the flop but wants to protect itself on the turn, a big draw like K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] or 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], etc. I wouldn't always check/call with these hands on the flop, but some people would.

I think you are significantly behind the range of hands, and you won't know whether you are good on the river. Good fold.

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Playing four-handed is all about feel. Most of the time no one will have much of a hand so attempting to follow any sort of guidelines is futile. You can quickly guage how often each of your opponents is trying to pick up a pot, and get an idea of what they need in order to bet with (top pair, any pair, any pair or draw, bare overcards) and adjust your play accordingly. Once you call or raise them on the flop, see how often they continue on the turn.

I once folded top pair to a single bet on the flop in a heads-up match... it was the first time the guy had bet the flop in like 15-20 hands and I'd previously seen him check/call the flop with TPNK and continue to check it down on the turn/river. Against another player I went into "full house draw" mode with bottom set on a monotone flop because I got minraised (he showed me his flush when I folded the river). If I posted these hands here I'd be ridiculed... but I made the right plays based upon the information I had on my opponents.

In the hand you posted, I don't see how you can really consider anything but folding without a pretty crazy read, but I'd make a note of that play and see how it fits in with the rest of the hands he's been playing.

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really good post

[c_strong]

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6max is where its at guys...



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I've noticed a lot of 2+2ers play 6-max. I was wondering why? I've always played full ring, partly because my natural style is fairly tight. I've heard it said that shorthanded play can allow poorer players to do better as they may not be making a mistake playing their normal range of marginal hands. Would I be right in thinking that the attraction of shorthanded NL is being able to use selective aggression to win a lot of hands PF or on the flop?

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Would I be right in thinking that the attraction of shorthanded NL is being able to use selective aggression to win a lot of hands PF or on the flop?

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eh, maybe for some

for me, the attraction is being more intimate with each of your opponents, and being able to exploit their weaknesses more frequently

[4_2_it]

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6max is where its at guys...



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I've noticed a lot of 2+2ers play 6-max. I was wondering why? I've always played full ring, partly because my natural style is fairly tight. I've heard it said that shorthanded play can allow poorer players to do better as they may not be making a mistake playing their normal range of marginal hands. Would I be right in thinking that the attraction of shorthanded NL is being able to use selective aggression to win a lot of hands PF or on the flop?

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From my experience, full ring is more of a rock garden than 6-max. Rocks and set farmers pay a lot more in in blinds and missed draws so many tend to avoid the 'action' tables.

So if you are adept at taking money from rocks and set farmers full ring is probably very profitable for you. If you are better at extracting from uber LAGs and maniacs then 6-max is optimal. Neither is 'better', but it is important to understand the differences.

[vulturesrow]

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6max is where its at guys...



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I've noticed a lot of 2+2ers play 6-max. I was wondering why? I've always played full ring, partly because my natural style is fairly tight. I've heard it said that shorthanded play can allow poorer players to do better as they may not be making a mistake playing their normal range of marginal hands. Would I be right in thinking that the attraction of shorthanded NL is being able to use selective aggression to win a lot of hands PF or on the flop?

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From my experience, full ring is more of a rock garden than 6-max. Rocks and set farmers pay a lot more in in blinds and missed draws so many tend to avoid the 'action' tables.

So if you are adept at taking money from rocks and set farmers full ring is probably very profitable for you. If you are better at extracting from uber LAGs and maniacs then 6-max is optimal. Neither is 'better', but it is important to understand the differences.

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What 4_2_it said. Also, 6-max is an action game, which seems to attract the uber-donks, the kind that like to call off their whole stack with bottom pair because they "thought you had AK". I also think you are more likely to double through in a 6 max game for these reasons..course you are also more likely to get stacked too. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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Well, the reason I moved down to the .05/.10 is a combination of running bad/bad BR management and a serious attempt on my part to practice better BR management.

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I think playing nickle dime is a great learning experience. Yes the poker is terrible and you wont beable to apply poker logic, But to beat it you need patience and disipline. A good lession before moving up.

[c_strong]

Thanks to 4_2_it and vulturesrow - you've whetted my appetite for some 6-max action ...

[The_Bends]

Hand looks fine to me.

Rasing 88 out of the blinds is a fine play IMO, the main reason being it so simple to play postflop. I can't think of many flops that will give you a hard decision. They'll be terrible (don't CB) bad (CB then bail like you did), good e.g. Overpair (bet and need a good reason to fold) or awesome e.g. set (get all the money in) Therefore you've removed one of the main disadvantages of playing OOP.

I can't back this up but its my experience that people at SSNL get far more commited to pots when there's been a PFR. If you limp and hit a set you're simply not going to stack anything but a moron or an underset. If you raise you can stack TPTK. Be interesting to see if anyone else sees it the same way.