Basic JJ hand

[AZK]

The right play here is probably fold the flop the first time around, but lately I seem to like lighting money on fire.

5/10 full ring, 1 limper ($450), MP ($1000) makes it 50 to go. I call on button, SB calls ($1000). I just sat down.

Flop 764 twotone

SB leads for 60, limper calls 60, MP calls 60, I make it 250, SB folds, limper moves in, MP moves in, I fold.

[HoldEmKillah]

Do you still fold if MP folds to limper's push? Could limper be on a squeeze with 2 big suited cards?

[AZK]

No, that was the plan. I am definitely calling when the raiser folds...

I understand the default play with JJ is to simply call raises with it preflop (since you are up against a bigger pocket pair a significant amount of the time, and all worse hands fold), but in some situations it is a definitely re-raise. If MP is opening often (or light) I would reraise to 150. Note the significant difference between him raising one limper and two or three.

Post flop, I simply do not see the value in raising. SB leading into the field so weak could be a draw trying to price itself, or a set begging for a raise. The first limper you assume to be a draw or a weak pair (7's, 8's), or a set hoping preflop raiser has an overpair and will raise. When MP just calls, and then later pushes I put him on big hearts, not AA/KK/QQ.

I may very well have called his push. I can't see him playing a big pair this way (unless you've been crazy lately and he wanted to make sure no one else had him beat and you he's not worried about, or you've shown to be weak or lag). In short, I think his play is much more consistent with AK of the suit on the board or a flopped set than with a big overpair.


[edit : failed to notice the limper pushing.]

[TheWorstPlayer]

You're gonna fold for 60 into that huge pot with a decent overpair? I can see flat calling, or I can see raising, but I can't see folding.

[AZK]

I hate calling the most. It's multiway, my hand is bleh. If I'm not already beat, people are surely playing hands that have decent equity against mine or might even be ahead. I have no idea what the pfr has, though a fairly good assumption. I don't know, it's sort of like combined collusion or whatever it's called, more than half the deck makes me a loser if I'm not already one. It just doesn't seem like a good situation to put chips in...then again, maybe I'm becoming a nit. If SB has the straight draw, limper has hearts, and pfr has AK, do you still like JJ?

[TheWorstPlayer]

I definitely see your point that it's like the combined horse race or whatever where even though you could be a favorite to each, you are a dog to the combination. But, the pot is big, the bet is small. If you spike a jack on the turn, your equity increases dramatically. There are a lot of hands that can push the flop with good equity but become big dogs on a blank turn. You have the BN and can therefore see all the action before you have to make a decision on the turn. Just seems too easy to get blown off your hand by raising the flop. Even if you're ahead, you probably aren't far ahead. I prefer to call and see what happens on the turn. Folding is too weak, but I don't really see that your hand has enough value to make it worth protecting with a raise.

[okayplayer]

Why the small raise? The pot is like $380 and you make it $250? I would be pissed that I had to put in a large raise, but come on, $60 into $200? We know SB has sht, and the limper is actually the only one I am concerned about, because this is often a trapping play with a set/2 pr/str8, expecting a raise from PFR; however, since he is short, he could be pushing figuring his flush or str8 draw has outs/equity against you since PFR showed weakness by calling. I fully expect PFR to have AK/AQs with a fl drw. I think I would have gotten tied to this hand with a bigger raise (committing myself to a call from limper, and thus PFR). So maybe your raise was good? In general, I like your line though.

[psuasskicker]

Looks pretty standard to me.

- C -

[tpir90036]

Just doing some quick math in my head this looks like way behind or barely ahead just guessing on some draw/made hand ranges for both players. Especially given the flat call/push combo by the limper. In my head this is either a huge draw or a set.

Anyway, looks like a very good fold to me.