Bad river card - value bet?

[kenberman]

both guys are pretty loose/passiove

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP calls, Hero calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB checks.

Flop: (3.40 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, MP calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB calls, MP calls.

Turn: (4.70 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, MP checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls, MP calls.

River: (7.70 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, MP checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 7.70 BB

[The Truth]

I would fire again. You are usually ahead here, and they will pay you off.

-blake

[fyodor]

Key here is if you do bet you MUST fold to a cr. The value bet is thin, but probably positive (this is one where you should do the math away from the table but I just got up and don't feel like doing math) however if a passive checkraises this board you can be like 99% certain he hit his draw and paying him off will quickly turn your value bet into a negative.

[MoDOH]

I would raise this preflop to start with. And you are ahead on this river often enough to bet. usually they bet there made straight or flush on this scary river since they are afraid that it will get checked through.

[livinitup0]

Looks fine. I think you're beat on the river...nice check.

[GetThere1Time]

[ QUOTE ]
both guys are pretty loose/passiove

[/ QUOTE ]

Gotta value bet these guys to death. You're never getting raised by a worse hand here and their calling with much worse most of the time so fire a shell.

[Buz]

What hand could they possibly hold that they would pay off with? I agree that they would normally value bet a flush if they hit it, but if they had a J for the str8, they probably check/call and you are beat out of an extra bet. If they only held TP, they likely check/fold because they are beaten by any J or any made Flush. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

I think a value bet is -EV because against two opponents, you are called if you are beat and folded if you are ahead.

[Digs]

[ QUOTE ]
What hand could they possibly hold that they would pay off with?

[/ QUOTE ]

a pair.

I raise pf.

bet the river~

[Lmn55d]

bet/fold.

[baronzeus]

[ QUOTE ]
bet/fold.

[/ QUOTE ]