Wait for it... - Page 2

TazQ · #11 09-23-2005, 03:08 AM

I'm not sure what you're getting at. If you can't protect your hand on the flop, you won't be able to do it on the turn either with the raiser's position in your example, thats when you shrug your shoulders and pump it on the flop knowing everyone is calling.

wackjob · #12 09-23-2005, 03:13 AM

Very, very few players ever fold an OESD or flush draw regardless of odds or anything else.. they are gambling after all. The only question here is.. how do I make the most money with my overpair? The answer has to be related to how your expect your opponents to react to both a flop 3-bet or a turn raise.

ALL1N · #13 09-23-2005, 03:27 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure what you're getting at. If you can't protect your hand on the flop, you won't be able to do it on the turn either with the raiser's position in your example, thats when you shrug your shoulders and pump it on the flop knowing everyone is calling.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're trying to protect against 3/4 outers. Flush and OESD's aren't folding. Gutshots and Ax will fold to the flop 3-bet.

TazQ · #14 09-23-2005, 03:19 PM

I know, I 3-bet the flop too almost every time.

I was responding to your example of "The time to wait for the turn is when you can't protect your hand; ie if the raiser is just behind you. Then you go for value." The way I read it is that you mean just call flop raise, and wait until turn to try and get value. If you mean just pump the flop, then I agree. Think I just misread your post.

Victor · #15 09-23-2005, 03:40 PM

the reason why i usually 3bet is bc there are many cards that will cause the checkraiser to shutdown on the turn. if an a, k or q hit then he will likely not bet.

however, if you are fairly sure that he is aggro enough to bet despite overcards hitting then your line is better since you make more.

TStoneMBD · #16 09-23-2005, 03:47 PM

definitely 3 bet this flop. big mistake. if you 3bet the flop and are checkraised on the turn you can release.

ALL1N · #17 09-23-2005, 10:14 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I know, I 3-bet the flop too almost every time.

I was responding to your example of "The time to wait for the turn is when you can't protect your hand; ie if the raiser is just behind you. Then you go for value." The way I read it is that you mean just call flop raise, and wait until turn to try and get value. If you mean just pump the flop, then I agree. Think I just misread your post.

[/ QUOTE ]

Heh, nah I don't mean pump the flop. If you bet and the guy right behind you raises, its almost certain he has a leading/vulnerable hand (pair), so he's going to bet the turn very nearly every time. So in that case I just call the flop raise and CR the turn.

sations · #18 09-24-2005, 01:34 AM

definitely 3 bet this flop. big mistake. if you 3bet the flop and are checkraised on the turn you can release.

sorry haven't figured out the qoute thing but is release the best idea here. if you plan on releaseing on a c/r on turn then why wouldn't you just call down unimproved.