Bet, bet, check/call vs Eeegah

Paxosmotic · #1 08-05-2005, 06:00 PM

I'm going to do something a little different. Most people post hands where they ask for advice. I'm going to post a hand that I feel is pretty straight forward and explain my thought process as I go through the hand. I think the river play is a particularly key concept that most ML players are aware of but may not be implementing.

This hand took place at the .25/.50 tables on Stars last night. Me and Eeegah were celebrating my semi return to poker (hence the low stakes for a celebrated 4k/8k vet like myself) and were both alternating between LAG-ness and proper play. This one was 'proper play'. I'll add some comments in italics.

PokerStars 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP calls, 2 folds, Hero raises, 1 fold, MP calls.

Amazingly standard raise. MP was LA-P. He loved to gamble it up before the flop but slowed down immeasurably after. His limp here signifies a weaker than normal hand for early position.

Flop: (5 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, MP calls.

Not the overcard you want to see in a micro-limit game, but being heads up, I felt the bet was for value. He'd let me know where I was at on the turn anyway.

Turn: (3.50 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, MP calls.

No raise. At this point I was almost certain that Villain's hand did not contain an ace unless was holding ace-little. The lack of a raise told me I'm good 9 out of 10 times.

River: (5.50 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks intending to call a bet.

In this situation, with the top card on board pairing, I don't think there's much I can do to get someone who has called down to call one more bet. Further, if he calls my bet, he probably does have me beaten. On the other side, I can check and hope to induce a bluff. With a scare card falling, my check represents that I don't have an ace (which I don't, but that's not even remotely important), and invites Villain to take a stab at the pot. The more aggressive your opponent, the better this play will work for you. In this situation, I chose a relatively passive villain, but I still felt that if I was to bet one more time and get called I would lose that bet. I felt that his betting range was much larger than his calling range with two aces on board.

What is important in this situation is not that I am good >50% of the time on the river to justify a value bet. It's important that I am good >50% of the time when I am called. This is a pretty straight forward play and it's one you should be making on a regular basis with a marginal but likely best hand.

silkyslim · #2 08-05-2005, 06:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
This is a pretty straight forward play and it's one you should be making on a regular basis with a marginal but likely best hand.

[/ QUOTE ]
Unless you are playing against very poor players then your value bet RELENTLESSLY!~!!!!!!

Paxosmotic · #3 08-05-2005, 06:21 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This is a pretty straight forward play and it's one you should be making on a regular basis with a marginal but likely best hand.

[/ QUOTE ]
Unless you are playing against very poor players then your value bet RELENTLESSLY!~!!!!!!

[/ QUOTE ]
I felt the play would have been better with a hand like KQo, a more marginal hand that was still likely to be best, but I decided to post the hand in its original form to illustrate.

Eeegah · #4 08-05-2005, 06:22 PM

While we're at it, let's discuss this HU hand between Pax and myself.

PokerStars 0.02/0.04 Hold'em (2 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
Button calls, Hero checks.

Flop: (2 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero raises, Button 3-bets, Hero caps, Button calls.

Turn: (5 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, Button calls.

River: (7 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, Button folds.

Final Pot: 8 BB

paxosmotic said, "Just folded top pair, I hate you"

McGahee · #5 08-05-2005, 06:23 PM

OK I am certainly not the value-betting police around here, but I disagree with this.
A loose passive player is calling with worse hands more often than he's betting with here, especially at the .25/.5 game; and you're certainly good way more than 50% of the time when he calls.

DrunkHamster · #6 08-05-2005, 06:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]
OK I am certainly not the value-betting police

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmm I just thought of a great gimmick account...

Paxosmotic · #7 08-05-2005, 06:25 PM

[ QUOTE ]
While we're at it, let's discuss this HU hand between Pax and myself.

[/ QUOTE ]
Let's discuss capping with T5o.

Harv72b · #8 08-05-2005, 06:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
What is important in this situation is not that I am good >50% of the time on the river to justify a value bet. It's important that I am good >50% of the time when I am called. This is a pretty straight forward play and it's one you should be making on a regular basis with a marginal but likely best hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Against an aggressive opponent I like check/calling here; he would've raised the flop or turn with an Ace, so he's probably drawing & might be willing to throw a bet out there as a bluff when he misses but you show weakness. But against a passive opponent, which this one is, this is an easy river bet/fold situation. If he called this far with an underpair (44? 22?), he's certainly going to call now that the ace paired. But if you check it he's going to check through the vast majority of the time. He's probably not going to bet with a busted draw no matter what you do.

Vote4Pedro · #9 08-05-2005, 07:22 PM

eeeeeeeeeeeeeeggggaaahhhhh

Eeegah · #10 08-05-2005, 07:25 PM

faaaaaaaaaaaaaaarm schooooooooooooool