77 from the BB.

wiggs73 · #1 07-31-2005, 09:01 PM

This is a PP $22.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (6 handed) converter

MP (t2560)
CO (t775)
Button (t1960)
SB (t890)
Hero (t835)
UTG (t980)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP calls t50, CO calls t50, 1 fold, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (t200) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, MP bets t50, CO calls t50, SB folds, Hero is all-in.

Discuss.

AKQJ10 · #2 07-31-2005, 09:12 PM

Long story short, you let too many opponents in for a medium pair. Your flop play was fine, but your preflop play was poor.

Now how I reached that assessment, in stream-of-consciousness (hence the odd organization of my reply).... What about raising to something like 300 on the flop? I think you've still got about the same chance of winning the hand, but I don't know that it plays out any differently if you get a caller or a reraise. Laying down an overpair to a reraise would be tough (see my thread about my 99 overpair).

Is pushing going to push out any better hands that a smaller but substantial raise wouldn't? A savvy opponent is going to read a push as indicating weakness and call with eights through aces (although limping with those pairs preflop would have been a mistake, but not outrageously improbable). A deuce calls you regardless.

Four-handed there's a reasonable chance you're behind to a deuce -- but not enough chance that you're going to lay down an overpair to a reraise. Since you're pot committed you might as well push. If top pair sees your push as weakness, so much the better.

I think you played it fine on the flop. But not raising out of the big blind with a medium pair is a big mistake. If you got outflopped by K2s or A2o, you invited it.

wiggs73 · #3 07-31-2005, 09:16 PM

So are you saying to raise to 300 before or after the flop? I wasn't clear on that from your post.

AKQJ10 · #4 07-31-2005, 09:17 PM

Sorry, I just edited to clarify. I started out (in stream of consciousness) evaluating the flop play, and considering whether there's an advantage to a smaller raise. But I don't think there's much of one.

KramerTM · #5 07-31-2005, 09:31 PM

I raise to 200 or 250 on the flop and autopush any card on turn.

Overall though, I don't mind how you played it. If MP is loose enough, you may get a call from overcards here.

ldavidjm · #6 07-31-2005, 09:33 PM

I don't like raising 7's PF with a bunch of limpers, especially when you're going to be out of position postflop. Secondly I hate playing the small overpairs like this, if you want to play at the pot this is the right move, but there's plenty of stuff that's calling that you're way behind, 8's through Jacks many times won't raise, a 2 is a longshot, and the only thing that's paying you off is a weak player with A5. That said I think a fair amount of time you're taking down the pot with the checkraise allin, but I still think you can bide your time and find better spots. I'd be alot more comfortable with the move if it were a somewhat stronger PP.

durron597 · #7 07-31-2005, 09:35 PM

Why not lead this flop for 150 and fold to a raise?

Preflop is perfect.

KramerTM · #8 07-31-2005, 09:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't like raising 7's PF with a bunch of limpers, especially when you're going to be out of position postflop. Secondly I hate playing the small overpairs like this, if you want to play at the pot this is the right move, but there's plenty of stuff that's calling that you're way behind, 8's through Jacks many times won't raise, a 2 is a longshot, and the only thing that's paying you off is a weak player with A5. That said I think a fair amount of time you're taking down the pot with the checkraise allin, but I still think you can bide your time and find better spots. I'd be alot more comfortable with the move if it were a somewhat stronger PP.

[/ QUOTE ]

So what's your suggestion here? I agree with what you say, but unsure how else to proceed. CR all-in seems risky because it is very likely this will get checked around, and almost any card is bad for you on the turn.

wiggs73 · #9 07-31-2005, 09:38 PM

Just to clarify my line of thinking... this was the exact move I was hoping to make. I didn't want the flop to get checked around, but I thought there was a reasonable chance that there would be a bet by one of the 2 players after me. I had every intention of check-raising all-in if I sensed weakness. The min-bet and call seemed weak to me.

I could have bet out to try to accomplish this, but I thought I'd get the same result with a check-raise, but take down a slightly larger pot.

I wasn't looking to get action from over cards, as I was satisfied with the pot as-is. The t300 would be a nice addition to my stack.

ldavidjm · #10 07-31-2005, 10:08 PM

I'm not sure of the best line, in general I don't mind checking this and folding to any sort of decent bet as I've stated I don't think its worth it for t200 this early with blinds so low.

With the action as is, I don't think you can fold to a min bet here with an overpair, calling sucks cause a ton of stuff looks bad on the turn, so the checkraise would be my favored line. The bet and call and weak so take it down now. However, if he's betting 100 or 150 I'm seriously considering lettting this go. Maybe its weak but I get into all sorts of trouble early with these types of hands.

I don't like leading because it opens up all sorts of problems on the turn if smooth called. You need to get the money in now if your planning on getting it in at all.