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View Poll Results: 4 | |||
REM | 46 | 33.58% | |
Nirvana | 91 | 66.42% | |
Voters: 137. You may not vote on this poll |
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#21
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Re: Does anyone NOT push this?
I think its close if the villain is calling with the top 20% of hands – the cEV is there but the ICM is very close.
Out of 10 times: 8 times you will push and they will fold: +2400 cEV 2 times you will push and get called, of those two times you will lose 1340 in chips 51.76% of the time: -694 cEV So overall your cEV is: +1706 ICM looks close in that if you fold here you still retain roughly 25% of the prize pool, whereas if you push and get called by the top 20 percent on average you are looking at 26.3% of the prize pool. (correct my math if it is wrong) So while I would push this, I think it is one of those “disasters if you are called” as curtains puts it. It all depends on if he is calling or not. Total number of players : 4 Seat 1: RU2003 ( $2067 ) Seat 2: StneColdCall ( $2034 ) Seat 7: rocketman73 ( $1340 ) Seat 8: rjb922 ( $2559 ) Trny:14320606 Level:6 Blinds(100/200) 1- You push they fold RU2003 2067 StneCold 2334 Rocketman 1340 Rjb922 2559 27.31% of the prize pool 2 – you fold RU2003 2067 Stnecold 2034 Rocketman 1640 Rjb9222 2559 24.89% of the prize pool 3 – you push get called and win RU2003 2067 Stnecold 3674 Rocketman 0 Rjb922 2559 36.72% of prize pool 4 – you push get called and lose RU2003 2067 Stnecold 694 Rocketman 2690 Rjb922 2559 11.39% of prize pool 5- you push and tie RU2003 2067 Stnecold 2154 Rocket 1490 Rjb922 2559 25.96% of prize pool If villain will call with top 20%: equity (%) win (%) tie (%) Hand 1: 45.5428 % 42.85% 02.70% { KsJh } Hand 2: 54.4572 % 51.76% 02.70% { 66+, A4s+, K8s+, Q9s+, J9s+, T9s, A9o+, KTo+, QTo+, JTo } if you are called 20% of the time: Win: .4285 Lose: .5176 Tie: .027 .3672*.4285 + .1139*.5176 + .2596*.027 = .1573 + .05895 + .007 = .2235 22.35% of the prize pool*.2 + .2731*.8 = .0447+ .21848 = .263 so 26.3-24.89 = +1.41% of the prize pool |
#22
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Re: Does anyone NOT push this?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I think ICM overestimates your equity after getting called & losing in this spot. [/ QUOTE ] Assuming your opponent is calling with the top 20% of hands, you would have to assume your equity after you lose is reduced by 95% of the default ICM lose-value for this to be breakeven, and even more to be a losing play... meaning ICM says you will have 11.4% equity if you lose, but you'd have to drop to 0.57% equity when losing for this play to actually be breakeven, assuming the other ICM values are correct. ICM maybe be off somewhat here, but I don't think its that off. [/ QUOTE ] Good point, I stand corrected. |
#23
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Re: Does anyone NOT push this?
1.5% of the prize pool is generally way more than enough to decide whether or not to push. In a $10 SNG, you win $1.50 right then and there just for picking up KJo and shoving it.
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#24
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Re: Does anyone NOT push this?
[ QUOTE ]
I think its close if the villain is calling with the top 20% of hands – the cEV is there but the ICM is very close. ... so 26.3-24.89 = +1.41% of the prize pool [/ QUOTE ] That's not very close. 1.41% edge at this point is pretty big. [ QUOTE ] It all depends on if he is calling or not. [/ QUOTE ] As someone already mentioned, it really doesn't. Now if you want to argue that ICM is overvaluing you when you become the SS, then that would affect this more as you will be called more often. But for any practical purposes I doubt it does. [ QUOTE ] If villain will call with top 20%: equity (%) win (%) tie (%) Hand 1: 45.5428 % 42.85% 02.70% { KsJh } Hand 2: 54.4572 % 51.76% 02.70% { 66+, A4s+, K8s+, Q9s+, J9s+, T9s, A9o+, KTo+, QTo+, JTo } [/ QUOTE ] The top 20% range I get from eastbay's calc is 33+,A4o+,A2s+,KJo+,KTs+. |
#25
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Re: Does anyone NOT push this?
How have 8 people voted for not push?
I guess I better read this thread? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] I can't imagine anyone is really suggesting anything but allin...hmmm. Yugoslav |
#26
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Re: Does anyone NOT push this?
[ QUOTE ]
1.5% of the prize pool is generally way more than enough to decide whether or not to push. In a $10 SNG, you win $1.50 right then and there just for picking up KJo and shoving it. [/ QUOTE ] now that you put it that way... [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] |
#27
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Re: Does anyone NOT push this?
To the 9 (imho) absolutely insane people who say to not push here, if you won't push with a top 20% hand from the SB when folded to on a regular basis in this position (blinds/stacksizes/etc), what exactly 'do' you consider to be 'push-worthy'?
It's already been pointed out that this is a clear +ev play in every sense. You can't win without +EV, but you can get cancer and die. |
#28
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Re: Does anyone NOT push this?
I'd like to hear someone try to explain to me why this ISN'T an auto push...
Don't wanna hear anything about luckboxes. |
#29
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Re: Does anyone NOT push this?
"If you have pushed the last 5 hands, wouldn't you think ICM would change here? The opponents calling standards would drastically change."
I still push. They can feel free to call me with their K8s or QJ. If they loosen their calling range, most of the hands they add you are a good favourite over. |
#30
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Re: Does anyone NOT push this?
Dear God. How is there such a long thread on this?
Anyone voting Don't Push, please send me some of what you're smoking. I'll use it for pain relief when im in hospital. |
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