I Feel Like I Should Know How To Play This...

ML4L · #1 07-16-2005, 02:58 PM

Hey all,

This one might be kinda straightforward, but for some reason, it isn't sitting well with me. AZK, just move it to small stakes if it would be better suited for there... [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Stars 5/10. I haven't been at the table long, so no real reads... I ($1000) limp in EP with 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. MP ($500) limps, and CO ($1200) limps as well. SB folds, and BB checks. 4 to the flop, which comes:

7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

BB checks, I bet $40, MP folds, LP calls. I think I played with LP a few months ago and that he's slightly LAG, but again, I wouldn't say that I have a real read on him... Anyway, the turn comes:

T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

I check, LP bets $80, I make it $300, LP thinks for a few seconds and calls. River comes:

J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

I push for $650, LP folds fairly quickly.

My main concern is that, even though I managed to get a lot of money in the middle, I'm not sure whether or not I would be able to get away on the river if an ugly card hit, so my opponent might not be making a mistake by calling my check-raise on the turn (or, if he is making a mistake, it probably isn't a big one).

Anyway, comments on all streets are appreciated.

ML4L

KaneKungFu123 · #2 07-16-2005, 03:07 PM

i like your line just fine.

durron597 · #3 07-16-2005, 03:38 PM

I wonder if you should check the river to induce a bluff from a busted flush draw (you said your opponent is LAG). I'm just trying to figure out what he would call both the flop and turn with that isn't a draw? His most likely hand IMO is A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].

Though I wonder if my opinion is skewed by the fact that I know what the river action is.

coltrane · #4 07-16-2005, 03:52 PM

hmmm.....couple of comments.....one, I'd have brought it in for a raise (maybe like $30) preflop......two, I might've overbet the flop (which is even nicer if there's more money in there preflop)......three, I don't like the turn checkraise without a read.....what are you putting villain on?.....generally by checkraising that turn I think you put the opponent in a position where he can't make a mistake.....it's pretty bad if he checks behind and you give him a freebee, it's pretty bad if he gets away from a pretty decent made hand that might've called you down had you bet turn/river, it's pretty bad if he flopped the nuts and you just bloated the pot for him......also, once you decide to checkraise - you might as well just checkraise more and overbet the pot because if he's gonna dump any sh!tty made hand to $300 then it makes no difference if you bet $400 or $500 and if he has a good draw you might as well commit yourself and not give him implied odds and just hope he makes a bad call/puts you on a semi-bluff......all in all, I think my line would've been: bring it in for $30 preflop, overbet the flop, overbet the turn......but I know how these 100BB stacks suck [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] ........

neon · #5 07-16-2005, 05:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I wonder if you should check the river to induce a bluff from a busted flush draw (you said your opponent is LAG). I'm just trying to figure out what he would call both the flop and turn with that isn't a draw? His most likely hand IMO is A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].

Though I wonder if my opinion is skewed by the fact that I know what the river action is.

[/ QUOTE ]

4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]10[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 34s, 88 and 99 all make a decent amount of sense as well, although I suppose he isn't folding bottom two "quickly" to your river push.

I'm not sure how much I like your turn CR. I don't think you want to risk a free card here.

Also, and my thinking very well may be skewed by the knowledge that villain "folded quickly" to your river push, but I think I like checking the river to induce a bluff. I mean, this guy's raising 1010 and JJ just about every time prefop, right? So the only hand that's beating you by the river that wasn't already is 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].

Yes, you may miss out on some value from second-best made hands that may pay you off on the river, but I think you would've heard from 33/44 by now, no?

BobboFitos · #6 07-16-2005, 05:31 PM

mike,

this looks real good. i dont know why it didn't sit well with you.

other people are saying to check/call (well, move in I assume the rest of your money) on the river, and that looks good. in the heat of the hand i probably push, too, but isn't villain with a made hand put into a raise/fold spot on the turn once you c/r? he cant just call unless he plans to call all rivers, in which case he must believe your bluff frequency (and general "move making frequency," to c/r semi the turn) is huge.

so sets/twopairs (which could call the all in) push themselves on the turn, so it leaves only weak hands at the end (busted draws) that (esp. if he's a LAG) will bluff at the pot. so c/r al in on the riv.

As said, in the heat I play it the same (or just bet again on the turn) so... nh.

fimbulwinter · #7 07-16-2005, 06:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hey all,

This one might be kinda straightforward, but for some reason, it isn't sitting well with me. AZK, just move it to small stakes if it would be better suited for there... [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Stars 5/10. I haven't been at the table long, so no real reads... I ($1000) limp in EP with 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. MP ($500) limps, and CO ($1200) limps as well. SB folds, and BB checks. 4 to the flop, which comes:

7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

BB checks, I bet $40, MP folds, LP calls. I think I played with LP a few months ago and that he's slightly LAG, but again, I wouldn't say that I have a real read on him... Anyway, the turn comes:

T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

I check, LP bets $80, I make it $300, LP thinks for a few seconds and calls. River comes:

J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

I push for $650, LP folds fairly quickly.

My main concern is that, even though I managed to get a lot of money in the middle, I'm not sure whether or not I would be able to get away on the river if an ugly card hit, so my opponent might not be making a mistake by calling my check-raise on the turn (or, if he is making a mistake, it probably isn't a big one).

Anyway, comments on all streets are appreciated.

ML4L

[/ QUOTE ]

remember his hand has 2 bad outs and 7 good ones on the turn, so he's making a nice mistake in calling the 300.

i like a river lead on an ace or a board pairing heart. otherwise check/call makes more i think.

fim

-Skeme- · #8 07-16-2005, 06:29 PM

What about a small weak lead on the river? I still think it can induce a bluff from LAG with a missed draw and might get called by something. Kinda covers both angles..

aggie · #9 07-17-2005, 08:21 PM

I bet this turn (~100). The negative to this is it let's villian get away when he was screwing around with overcards. But i think an aggressive villian is going to raise you fairly often on this turn. It looks like a scare card for you. He might get frisky with his flush draw (or a 10) on the turn and raise which will allow you to get it allin. It also prevents him from taking a free card with a draw.

cero_z · #10 07-18-2005, 12:07 AM

Hi Mike,

I like it fine for sure up to the turn. The turn is pretty good, too, but here are my other thoughts:

I guess you need to decide what kind of guy you're most likely to be dealing with. Is he the kind who will often have almost nothing here (one pair or less), and who you therefore need to trap into putting the money in before you? Or, is he the type who probably has a significant number of outs in this situation, or who may even have a pretty good made hand already? I think most players online (and moreso on Stars) fit the 2nd description, so I would checkraise a little more than you did, to more like 400.

This helps with the problem of leaving too much headroom in your stack for him when he hits a draw, but makes getting away from it when he has you beat harder (actually impossible). This is a fine tradeoff IMO; online, I don't think we have the luxury of being able to get away from this hand if he flopped a straight or turned 3 Tens. One thing you can do to mitigate your losses in this event is to do what you did--get your money in on the turn, so you have quite a few outs if he has a straight.

Given your turn play, I think a push on the river was fine. Either that, or a very small value bet (100 bucks). Anything in between looks too crystal-clear as a big hand; why are you saving 100 or 150, you know?