Disturbing e-mail from partypoker

[revots33]

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The only time it relly makes a difference is in table selection (which is very important) and in a cold read 1-5 hands into a table when a 19/10 raises you in early position when you hold a marginal hand.

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You make it like these are 2 minor points, when in fact they are the whole reason these programs exist. How is it fair that you are able to pick the most profitable tables, and avoid the toughest ones, without knowing the players? How is it fair that you can decide to bet or fold based on datamined knowledge of a player that, under normal conditions, you'd have absolutely no read on? I can't do either of these things, because I don't use this software. Neither, I'd guess, can about 95% of the other players online.


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Information is just that,. Information. If you can't interpet it to make a good decision, which most people can't. it's worthless.

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Agreed. But it would be nice if all players had access to the information in the first place. You can't interpret information that you don't have.

[ckessel]

Has the gametime window. Same thing.

[ckessel]

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Their making profit off of PP data files.

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They're making money off of freely available information that has no restrictions on usage. That's perfectly game. Putting the effort in to use and repackage freely available information is stock and trade business. Just ask IBM and the the Linux boxes they sell.

[John Ho]

Is each user getting a randomized .exe file name? That could possibly make it harder for Party to find out who is using the program but of course there are other ways.

If every user gets the same name that is pretty stupid since there is a 99.9999% certainty that people at Party have bought all the tracking programs and monitor them for any changes.

[MisterKing]

Just something that seems reasonable to add here, from one of the other threads on the PE subject--

DMBFan said:
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I'm anti datamining. poker edge is available to everyone, yes, but the information shouldn't be available to poker edge, and them selling it is taking the problem and making it worse. IMHO.

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And I said in response:

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You damned nit.

Can we please reduce this question to its essence?
Ultimately, this entire matter is about people objecting to the idea that an edge, e.g. extra information that helps its holder play more effectively, can be purchased. Unfortunately, there is no reasonable line of distinction that can be drawn to separate an information product like PE from an information product like "Hold'Em For Advanced Players by David Sklansky." Do you see why? (nyuk nyuk nyuk).


Note that I am restricting my comments to the world of information products, be they books, software, or any other device -- either physical or virtual. This debate is about knowledge, and NOTHING MORE. Sklansky's books, PT, CardPlayer Magazine, all of those things are just knowledge tools. They are bits of information that human players consume, process, and then make use of. Player A will read HEPFAP and apply it poorly... he may also have PE and apply its data poorly. Player B may do one well and not the other, or vice versa. The INFORMATION is there for both players (and conversely not there for those that do not purchase it), but the manner in which it is used (or not used) differs immensely.

In and of themselves, PE and HEPFAP have no impact on poker games. Bringing HEPFAP to the table won't help. Loading PE to a digital table won't either. Applying the lessons learned from either, however, will make a difference. Note that this is the part that makes PE so different from IBM's Deep Blue Chess Computer or actual poker cheating software (bots, collusion, etc.). You can bring Deep Blue to a chess match, fire it up, and beat Gary Kasparov without using your brain. You cannot, however, bring PE to a 15/30 game on Party and beat that game (or any one player in it) without using your own skills, reasoning, and so on.


There has been some good discussion lately about a MTT group called "The Team" (I think that's the name). Lee Jones had a great article responding to "The Team" issue, in which he explained that online poker is just not a 1:1 equivalent of B&M poker. It is the same base game, but some differences necessarily exist. Data mining is one of them. Massive amounts of useful data are a natural and inexorable consequence of the digitization of poker. It is only natural that discerning players will want to use this data effectively, and casual players will not. In the B&M world, discerning players observe opponents at the table, read books while away from the table, and are always maximizing their information advantage. Casual players are staring at the Borgata cocktail waitress' titties and talking about the Yankees center field and pitching problems. Both types of players are free to do whatever, but they choose one path or another according to their individual priorities. Online players do the same, but the specific ways in which they do so differs somewhat.

So anyhow, DMBFan is a massive nit. I hope he's never purchased a poker book, because like Doyle Brunson, PE has taken useful poker information and put it up for sale. And by his reasoning, that's not fair.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe the ad-hominem was a little much, but honestly, it was too hard to resist.

[KyleM]

wtf noooooooooooooooooooo!!!!! I love pokeredge. Even though I don't think it is any better than dedicated data-mining (16 tables 24/7 lol), it is such a HUGE advantage, in that it saves me a TON of time finding the fishy tables, and allows me to switch tables immediately without any problem, compared to the huge amount of time wasted looking for a really fishy table using PT/GT+. ahhhh fucccccckkkkkkkk yoouuuuuuuuuuuu party!!!

anybody know if you can still use it on other skins? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[KyleM]

ok [censored] just checked some of my other email accounts and found an email from empire too. [censored]! (only other skin i usually play at right now)

[Freudian]

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Second, I contend that if pros cut down on multi-tabling then there will be LESS tables overall. So even if I'm wrong about #1 (which I don't think I am), you still won't have 3 easier tables.

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Thats nonsense. Without PE the TAGs will still multitable. They just won't have the extra crutch of PE.

Is it the revisionist view here that multitabling came with PE and will go when PE is banned?

[Webster]

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Is it the revisionist view here that multitabling came with PE and will go when PE is banned?

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LOL - I don't think so. Multi table was LONG before PE. I think it's funny how people used PE is a crutch (I know I do LOL).

There are ways around this though.

Has anybody gottin PINGED (disconnected) when just LOOKING for tables?? (not playing).

[2callzU]

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seriously what else is named anything close to that? why don't they just call it "NOTPOKEREDGE.EXE"




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LMAO. Unnescessary bump here but since it's already been bumped and I came across this funny sh't I thought...well.....I thought maybe it would really fool PP if they named it "JUSTANOTHERFILE.EXE." or maybe "NOTHINGHEREJUSTMOVEALONG.EXE." or maybe even "POKEREDGEWENTTHATWAY->.EXE". lol. I'd love to see more people roll with this but...eh...nvm..maybe if I get Citanul to lead the charge you'll all perk up and follow suit..oh yea, i'm a newbie. Who listens to a newbie?(lowers head) nvm again.