Playing Online for a living - Week 6

[davidross]

Well this week will certainly be different. No daytime play until at least Thursday, and I won’t be able to play late at night until around Wednesday.

Sunday.

Our company left this afternoon. We had a great weekend except my brother kicked my butt at golf again. I went several years without ever losing to him. I wasn’t any better than him but he always seemed to choke trying to beat his big brother. We both played to about a 9 handicap then. Now he plays to about a 5 and I’m probably a 15. I think it’s 6 years since I’ve beaten him now. My excuse is he’s a teacher and gets all summer to play and practice. It’s my story and I’m sticking to it.

Very little poker today. 2 ½ hours, and a $44 win. I have an interview first thing tomorrow for a contract and the rest of the day in a brainstorming session with a potential full-time employer.


Monday.

Interviewed this morning and I think it went well, but the guy was impossible to read He had a “poker” face. I know I’m asking for more money than my competitors, but I bring a lot more experience to the table. It took me 1 hour exactly to get there which isn’t bad, but longer than I was hoping for. I should hear by the end of the week as they want someone to start next week. The brainstorming session was a disaster. The job doesn’t interest me in the least. It’s a good friend of mine who asked me to come out and meet them but I can’t see myself working there.

Poker was limited to 3 hours again. I’m going in to work for a former client tomorrow. Had a bad night. No cards essentially. - $190 for the session. That’s the problem with the short sessions I think, the long term doesn’t always have a chance to kick in, but maybe it saved me money.

Tuesday

Well, that was the easiest money I ever made. Went in this morning to do a day’s work for a client, and they had no place for me to work and no network connections. Sent me home after an hour and asked me to come back tomorrow. 1 quick hour’s work for the price of about a cup of gasoline (the office is very close).

So I got to play some poker this afternoon. One of my big fears is that the games at paradise will tighten up now that the promotions and the extra play the WSOP seems to bring. I believe that is happening. The games have been very tight this week and it continued this afternoon. Again I was quite card dead and got no action when I did make a hand. For 2 hours I hovered about even, then the rush hit. I don’t know if others experience this, but I can almost feel it coming, and when it hits it’s like I can tell what everyone else has. In 45 minutes I won $480 and got onto the plus side for the week.

2 hands of note.

EP raises (he is solid but having a rough day) and I call cold with Ks Qs on the button. BB calls too.

Flop As Kd 7s

Checked to me and I bet. BB calls and EP raises. Hmmm. AK, AA or KK. Spades are probably my only outs. I call and BB calls.

Turn [As Kd 7s] Jh

EP bets, I call and BB folds.

River [As Kd 7s Jh] 4s.

He bets and I raise. He calls. I then get called a chaser after he shows Ad Kd. Nothing special about the hand, but when he raised the flop I knew he had AK. Not the most difficult read in the world, but I would have folded even if a K had rivered I was that sure of it.

2nd hand from earlier in the session when the mojo wasn’t happening.

UTG limps and I limp too with As Js. I will raise this 75% of the time, but today was spades day. Suited aces J and under are always a tough call for me whether to raise or just call, so I will pick a suit(s) before I start each day and the suit will determine if I raise or just call. Spades was a call today . 3 more callers and the BB. 6 to the flop.

Flop Ac 7d 4c

Checked to me and I bet. 2 calls, then 2 folds and now UTG raises. I think it much more likely he is drawing than he is ahead of me so I 3 bet. Guy to my left folds, but LP calls. Al I can put him on here is clubs. Unless he’s got 77 or 44. UTG calls too.

Turn [Ac 7d 4c] 8c

Yuck. UTG checks and I check too. This is a bonehead move. I have to bet here. Fold to a raise perhaps, but bet here. I was so set in my read that one of them was on clubs that I got blinded. LP bets, UTG calls and I fold.

River [Ac 7d 4c 8c] 8s

Check, bet call. LP had TT (ten of clubs) and lost to UTG with KK (K of clubs). $119 of mine went the wrong way. That’s 4 hours of work lost. I felt sick after that.

Wow. My post from last week has generated a lot of discussion. I guess that’s good, but I’m exhausted from explaining myself and answering posts. What a night. Just when I thought things were tightening up. I played 3 ½ hours, saw 32% of the flops and won 16% of the hands I played. And for most of the session I was down. I got great starters and kept coming 2nd. Then a series of snapped bluffs got me going and I ended up $470 for a $950 day.

One of the things I think I do well is to win hands that nobody seems to want without being one of those obvious “bet if checked to me” bluffers. I try to pick spots (always unraised pots) where the flop misses me but gives me some outs. Here is a hand I chickened out on that I probably should have continued the bluff.

I open limped 4 off the button with Qh Js. This hand came up as a criticism of my play in the posts today. I use a chart put together by Abdul that some of you I’m sure have seen. It has QJ and KJ as playable 3 off the button. I have stretched that a bit here. One LP call and both blinds play.

Flop Ks 5d 9s

Two checks to me. I have a gutshot. But I think a K would have bet, and the LP player is not likely to have limped with a K, he is the kind of guy to raise with it so I bet here hoping to win it right now. LP folds, but SB calls. BB folds.

Turn [Ks 5d 9s] 7d

Checked to me. Decision time. When do you carry on with your bluff and when do you bail. I bailed.

River [Ks 5d 9s 7d] 6h

Checked around again and I lost to A5. No telling if he would have laid down to a turn bet, but I think I should have tried.

Here is a flop play I question.

Two limpers and a raise from the cutoff. I call in the BB with Jh 9c. I know most of you will think that’s too loose but J9o is my low limit in a multi way pot. Heads up against an EP raiser I fold this.

Flop Js 8h 9h.

I hate slowplaying flopped 2 pairs so I bet out. The position of the raiser in the cut off though would have given me a better chance to thin the field with a check-raise. I got 2 folds anyway and just a call from the button.

Turn [Js 8h 9h] 2s

I bet again and he raised me. QT seems unlikely, as do JJ and 99. 88 perhaps, but he could easily put me on something like JT or just a naked T, so I put him on an overpair and 3 bet. He just called.

River [Js 8h 9h 2s] Kc

I bet out, hoping it wasn’t KK he had. He called and showed AA after I won. I think I got an extra bet by playing it as I did, but I’m not sure it was optimal in general.

Wednesday

Not a great day. I did get a full day of paid work in. that’s the good news. The bad news is I didn’t get the contract I interviewed for on Monday. They went with the less expensive alternative. Tonight the poker was awful. I played 800 hands and won 6% of them. There were hardly any bad beats, just hour after hour of fold fold fold. Raise, fold. And so on. I ended up down $440. It could have been much worse. This one hand saved me somewhat. The table had 2 bona fide maniacs, and one real loose aggressive all sitting side by side, across from me. Unfortunately I never got the hands you need to take advantage. Except this one.

I limp utg with Kc Kh. With those 3 sitting in LP there is virtually no chance of it getting past them without a raise. 2 limps and sure enough maniac1 raises. LA cold calls, and M2 calls from the SB. BB folds and I 3 bet. 2 folds and M1 calls. Now LA caps it. M2 calls, so do I and M1. 4 to the flop.

Flop 6c 7d 6s

SB checks and I bet. M1 calls and LA raises. M2 calls. It’s virtually impossible to put these guys on hands. Maybe someone has a 6, probably not. I 3 bet. M1 calls 2 more, and LA caps it. M2 calls 2 more and I call. M1 calls too. Hmm. I may be behind.

Turn [6c 7d 6s] Kd

OK. Now I don’t care. I bet, M1 calls, LA raises (I guess he does have a 6, but he capped preflop??), M2 calls 2 again (I love these guys), I 3 bet. M1 folds. LA caps it again (could he have 66?), M2 calls 2 more and I call.

River [6c 7d 6s Kd] 2c

Checked to me, and I bet(I actually thought about check-raising here but decided to bet out), both of them called. LA had Ad 6d. His post flop play is ok, I don’t like his cold call or 4 bet though pre-flop. M2 had Ks 7s, again probably ok post-flop and just a little loose pre-flop. Pot was $332.

It used to be a raise from the BB meant a huge hand. Lately it seems to me that people make the play with anything. This guy gets my vote for the worst played hand in history.

I limp in EP with 8d 8c. CO calls, SB calls and BB raises. I have no notes on him. We all call.

Flop 3c 4c 2s

SB checks, BB bets and I raise. Only the BB calls me.

Turn [3c 4c 2s] 4d

Now he bets out. Uh oh, I’m thinking a bigger pair than mine. I call anyway.

River [3c 4c 2s 4d] 8s.

Ahh. He bets, I raise and he calls. He shows KJo. What did he think I had??

Thursday

Afternoon starts out even worse than last night. I won 1 hand in the first 120, and had some big hands beat. Dropped $350 in the first 1/2 hour. The site went down for a reboot and when I rejoined I started getting some cards. Got back to even for the session before going stone cold again for an hour. Gave it all back again to end up down $350. I am up less than a hundred for the week now. I had such a rush of cards on Tuesday night, I guess I’m paying for it now, but the cold run has lasted much longer. King of the Zoo II tonight. Watch out, I’m due.

Evening

KOTZ 2 went much as my week has. Boy I love playing in these things. But man do I have a lot to learn about no-limit. It can’t be coincidence that the same faces end up near the top each time. My limit mindset doesn’t do well here. I lasted until the break, but went out on the first hand after the break in 27th I think. Just like last month KK was my demise. I limped in EP with it hoping to get my meager 700 all-in against someone but everyone folded to the BB. On the flop of Q 6 4 the BB bet 100 so I just called. Turn brought an 8 and he bet again and I pushed all-in. He had 75 and I was toast. The hand that cost me half my stack was AJo on the button for a limp. Board was J high and an EP let me off the hook by only making a small bet with a set of 7’s. Other than that I didn’t play a hand that went past the flop. I must brush up on NL before the next one.

Back to paradise and the nose dive continued. I’m getting sick of rebuying. At one point I looked and my balance was lower than I started the week. Ugh. Then I finally started hitting some flops, and I went on a nice run for the rest of the session. Ended the evening up 595 and the day up 245. For the week up $587. I’ll need a couple of good days to avoid this being my worst week.

When you’re running bad here is what happens.

I’m in the BB with Q4o and my mouse is hovering on the fold button. 2 limpers plus the SB and I get a free play.

Flop 4d 4s 4h

I don’t even notice at first, I’m playing my other table and I had this hand ready for the muck in my mind. I check and so does everyone else. Drat.

Turn [4d 4s 4h] Ah

I check again, and it gets checked around.

River [4d 4s 4h Ah] Qc

Damn. It’s tough to get action when you have all the cards. I bet this time and everyone folds. Grrr. I didn’t show.

Finally a card reading mistake that cost me $20.

I lost the hand history so it’s going to be from memory. Big multiway pot. I have 77 in EP and the flop comes 7 4 2 rainbow. One of the blinds bets into me and I smooth call. 2+2 lurker Looba calls right behind me. There is a raise on the button, the blind calls and now I raise. Looba calls again, button caps it. 4 of us to the turn. Turn is a J. I bet out. Looba calls and the button raises again. Blind calls 2 and it’s back to me. At this point I’ve forgotten about Looba and the blind. As far as I’m concerned it’s me and the button and it’s starting to look like the most lucrative hand in hold’em, set over set. I 3 bet, and he caps. The blind and Looba both keep calling cold. River brings an A and I can’t bet fast enough. Looba raises!! I quickly check the board again. AA or JJ beat me, but there is no way given the betting that he has either of those. Button calls, and the blind finally folds. I raise (I’m sure you’re more observant than me. I missed it completely), and Looba raises again. Poor button has to keep calling here probably realizing he’s lost, and I call too. Of course he had 53 (suited I think but it’s all a blur now). I couldn’t have avoided losing the huge pot, but the last $20 was stupid, and it’s those little things that add up by the end of the week. Grrrrr.


Friday

No doubt the craziest day of poker I’ve ever played. After being so card dead yesterday I got lot’s of big hands this afternoon. And they kept getting cracked. Hand after hand I would raise pre-flop, bet the flop and turn and get raised on the turn. Most of the time I would call down to see a flopped set or even quads(twice). I had to rebuy once on each table and ended the afternoon down $350.

The evening was more of the same. Found myself at two really tight tables, didn’t play many hands but when I did I got rivered again and again. I have tried not to spout too many bad beat stories here, but this is an example of how the whole day went.

I got a free play in the BB against 6 others with Jh Th.

Flop Qh 9h 8c. I’ve flopped the nuts, plus I have an open ended straight flush draw as well. I bet the flop, get 2 callers then a raise. Folded to me and I 3 bet. 1 fold, one call, then a cap. 3 of us see the turn.

Turn [Qh 9h 8c] 7s

I bet, call, raise. Hmm am I chopping? I still have a free roll on the flush if so, and I raise again. EP finally folds and now the LP calls.

River [Qh 9h 8c 7s] 9c

Oh crap. Here we go again. I check, he bets and I call (anyone save the $10 here?). He of course has 88.

After losing 2 more hands on the river when a 2nd deuce hit (AK vs A2, board of Kxx22, and QQ vs K2), I took a break. I was now down another $150 or 500 for the day. I made a dubious decision to play some 8/16. The games looked good (a couple of known loose players in the game, and although I was on a bad roll I thought I was still playing well.) But in reality I had gotten gun shy. I missed some good value bets when scary cards rivered. Even when nothing rivered I began to see ghosts and checked down winning hands. The calibre of player is better at 8/16 and I can’t afford to do that. Anyway, the losing continued. I had to rebuy again ($400 at these stakes, and as midnight approached I was down over $1,000 for the day and seriously considering packing it in. I don’t ever remember feeling so uncomfortable at the table. Every time I got a good hand I dreaded playing it. But there were two really bad players with big stacks in front of them and I wanted some of that. Ironically enough it was a river suckout of my own that got me back on track. I flopped a set of J’s on a KJ9 board and got 4 way action capped on the flop and 3 bet on the turn. A 9 rivered and I beat the QT that had flopped the straight. Then the flood gates opened. Strangely enough I only won on 1 table and continued losing on the other. But I won over $1,100 on that one table. I flopped 2 more sets of J’s, and my AK’s hit and held up. After grinding it out all day I posted a $100 win. But coming back from $1000 down felt good. That leaves me up only $700 for the week, but what a strange week.

Saturday

For the first time this week everything went well. I got good cards and I took advantage of them. I played 1 5/10 table and 1 8/16 table. The 5/10 shifted from tight to loose, with one horrible player who bluffed almost all of his money to me. The 8/16 was loose all night with lot’s of capped flops including hands like ATo and QTo. I love games like that. I played very few hands, but all my big pairs held up, I won my fair shre of drawing hands and I made all the right moves on the river. Ended up ahead $870 for the night, saving my week with a $1560 win for the week.

It was an unusual week, I played fewer hours because of the interviews and the day of work, and I really struggled for a few days. I’m proud that I hung in as well as I did, and minimized the losses, and I rode the good runs very well. Now if only I could beat some of those Zoo dwellers in their tournament.

I don't know if I'll keep up the day to day recaps. I'm running out of things to say that won't be repeats. I am still surprised at my success here. In a nutshell this game is very simple. Play better than your opponents and over the long run you will win. There always seems to be a number of players in the games I play who are very bad. That's a good start. Then there are a larger number of good players, who don't make the value bet on the end, when I was prepared to call, saving me money. They also play quite tight post flop allowing a more adventurous player to steal a pot or two an hour. I think this is th ekind of player I was for a long time. Then there are the very good, and even expert players. I don;t think I see many experts at 5/10. Maybe I just don't notice them they are that good, but more likely they are playing higher limits. Most of the 2+2'ers fall into the very good category. We seem to play each other pretty straight up. Raises are respected. I sometimes wonder if I shouldn't be tryingt obluff more as these are the guys most likely to fold to a raise, but I don't think I'm going to make much money in the long run from them, so it's probably better to hope tho break even against them. I guess the big question is are there enough bad players to keep th egames profitable. I hope so because I'm back to no immediate job prospects.

Until next week.

[AceHigh]

"My post from last week has generated a lot of discussion."

I hope you didn't take my posts the wrong way. It just seemed that you were "probably" running very good. I've seen it last for over a month. Most of the time I think I've turned a poker corner, and playing much better than before. But usually I come back down to earth at some point.

OTOH, if the games were very good, I think you could maintain your win rate.

"I use a chart put together by Abdul that some of you I’m sure have seen"

I think that chart is opening standards for being the first player to open a pot. And those are the hands you should be raising with, if you are first in. I could be wrong, but that's the way I interpret the chart.

Good luck with the job search.

[rigoletto]

Hi David

Another good post! The thing that speaks the most in favor of your long term success is your ability to bounce back from bad sessions. I see you analyze the situations in your posts, but are you also able to recognize these things when you are playing?

It doesn't seem to me like the games are thightening up (well, the afternoon games (my evening) are pretty tight to begin with). I do find that there are usually a minimum of to bad players which is enough to turn a profit in my experience.

This is a bonehead move. I have to bet here. Yep [img]/forums/images/icons/shocked.gif[/img]!

See you at the tables (preferbly on my left!).

[MRBAA]

I always enjoy your posts. As I said last time, I don't find your win rate remarkable at all. I think the bigger challenge will be maintaining your sharpness/interest doing what can become a profoundly unproductive and somewhat limited activity for a living. That's why I believe playing as a hobby/second job makes more sense. A lot of the posters (but by no means all) here seem to treat it that way.

That said, I find your observations on how to play different hands and different players fascinating. Yes, I've felt the rush. I generally attribute it to good play, beatable opponents and good cards, which lead to sharpened instincts and more good play and better table image and more opportunities to make plays. For me, decisions become much clearer when I'm going well. If only it could last forever.

Good luck in week 7 -- and please keep posting hands, I find your analysis very helpful and interesting.

[eMarkM]

EP raises (he is solid but having a rough day) and I call cold with Ks Qs on the button.

It's not the worst cold call in the world with KQs, but generally these are the kinds of plays you make that I don't like. The cold calling, especially being the first to call and to a EP no less. Reraise or fold here depending on the type of player EP is. If he's loosey, reraise. Very tight who raises only group 1/2 in this position, consider folding.

I open limped 4 off the button with Qh Js.

At least raise it and try to take it down uncontested.

limp utg with Kc Kh. With those 3 sitting in LP there is virtually no chance of it getting past them without a raise

Love it. Generally don't like limp-reraise with KK too much, but this is a perfect situation for it. High EV play with maniacs.

KOTZ 2 went much as my week has. Boy I love playing in these things. But man do I have a lot to learn about no-limit.

Me, too. KOTZ I got me on my current Stars tourney addiction. See my posts on Tournament boards for more details.

Flop 4d 4s 4h

Played it well, can't force people to call.

[Al_Capone_Junior]

There will always be enough bad players to keep the game profitable. I have some idea how many copies of Dave and Mason an nem's books have sold, and not everyone online can possibly have a copy. Of course many who do have a copy don't follow the advice anyway, luckily for us. The bad players will increase in the future due to shows like WPT, which encourages people to play crazily, thinking they will win lots of $$. Just look at Gus Hansen. Play like him and you'll be broke in no time (though I'm not saying Gus is a bad player by any means, it's just that using him as an example of how to play would be nuts).

I've seen you at the tables often, but I generally tend to avoid 2+2ers, unless I want to play a particular game/stakes and that's all I can find. I believe the only 2+2er I've mixed it up with so far is SoBedude, and not to much fanfare. I will be mixing it up at the zoo next time, although I think it's limit hold'em, not my favorite tournament game (NL is).

On the hand where you fold AJ and lost a pot you should have won...

I believe that betting into the possible flush in that situation is the right thing to do. If raised, you can fold with reasonable certainty that you're beat, as only players with a flush (or maybe a set) won't also fear the flush. If you get flat called, you can bet the river, or as I would more likely do, check-call the river, as some like to wait till the river to raise. You just can't always fear the flush, especially if it's only two or three handed.

another interesting post. I wish my win rate was as high as yours has been the last six weeks, tho I never play more than one game at a time.

I don't think the 8-16 games on paradise are any harder than the average the 5-10 games. I've played both and don't find them to be that much different. Actually, I find that limit hold'em is the toughest game on paradise, tho still quite beatable. Because of this, I tend to risk my $$ on that size stakes more often on 6-12 and 10-20 H/L stud, where one or two suckers make the game GREAT. I haven't found much tough competition there.

In order to improve your no limit skills, play the 50c bb no limit ring games. They are often quite juicy, and you can certainly lose a lot more in one hand of 5-10 than you can if you get broke there. Just remember that you have to make significant strategy adjustments for tournaments.

Example: a hand where I folded with the best of it because it was a tournament. I had 4h2h an the BB. Free play against four limpers. Blinds 50-100, I had about 1500 and so did my significant opponent (sb). Flop was 3h 5d Jh. That's 15 outs for me. SB bets all-in. Now in a ring game, I'd call the bet, because I'd have a 54.1% chance of getting there, and I'm getting slightly better than even $$. However, in a tournament, Even if I knew he had only top pair (and not something like a set which gave him redraws against my hand if I hit it), I'd still fold anyway, not worth the risk of going bust.

al

[unome]

Once again, I will echo the sentiments of everyone else here when I say great posts. I think a lot of us non-experts see us in you.

I need to correct you on the Thursday night "big pot hand" in which you could have saved yourself $20 when the winner hit the str8 on the river against your trip 7s. I was at the table and everyone limped (like 8 way action) to the big blind (and eventual winner) with the 3-5o. Big difference as I don't think he'd ever play 3-5o from ep. [img]/forums/images/icons/wink.gif[/img] Just curious, in your opinion, do you think he should have thrown away his hand with all that raising after he flopped the open ender?

Keep up the good work!

[Joe Tall]

First and foremost, keep up the good work and I enjoy reading you posts.

I have one comment that is the same for the following:

A hand that you won:
. Ironically enough it was a river suckout of my own that got me back on track. I flopped a set of J’s on a KJ9 board and got 4 way action capped on the flop and 3 bet on the turn. A 9 rivered and I beat the QT that had flopped the straight.

AND

A hand that you lost:

I have tried not to spout too many bad beat stories here, but this is an example of how the whole day went... River [Qh 9h 8c 7s] 9c Oh crap. Here we go again. I check, he bets and I call (anyone save the $10 here?). He of course has 88.

I feel that neither hand is a 'suck out' nor a 'bad beat' each has 10 outs to the river, both hands are great hands and that's just the game of hold'em.

Play well, keep up the good work,
Joe

[davidross]

You are, of course correct. I need a better term to describe drawing out on the river when you have correct odds to try for it.

[markc212]

Hey David,

Good post this week. Nice turnaround.

I'm dissappointed I didn't make it into this week's log. I thought we had a notable hand together (even though I lost).

If I remember correctly, I raised UTG with KQs, folded to you. You call, BB calls.

Flop comes A, rag, rag. BB checks, I bet, you raise. Everyone folds. You win.

Then, you state you hit the wrong button. Meant to fold rather than raise.

Doh! Oh well. I'll get you next time.