Missed value bet w/ ten high flush?

[donger]

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I don't like the limp preflop. There is only one limper, you gave no notes saying he is terrible or that Button was v loose or SB was loose as well. As far as the river, bet that crap.

Ah will probably lead the river in fear of you having a real small flush and just checking behind, or a fastly played set/two pair. Bet river, possibly fold to a check raise, although I would probably pay it off.

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I didn't really think the preflop play mattered. The table was loose/passive (like 45/9) and I was unlikely to be raised here.

Re: betting the river.. Right on. The more I think about this, the more I realize villain would probably read me for having flopped a flush and fear a check behind with the A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], so it's a pretty easy value bet. It really starts to look like a flopped two pair/set after that turn bet/call and river check.

[FrankTheTank]

do you really think the average player is going to fold the Qh for 2 bets on the flop? sure, it's good to make him pay more, but by raising all you'll usually force out are one pair hands and straight draws. plus by waiting till the turn to raise you force the Ah and Qh to pay the max to draw out.

[WarmonkEd]

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do you really think the average player is going to fold the Qh for 2 bets on the flop? sure, it's good to make him pay more, but by raising all you'll usually force out are one pair hands and straight draws. plus by waiting till the turn to raise you force the Ah and Qh to pay the max to draw out.

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I think your point has merit. However, waiting the turn to raise is very dependent on having someone actually bet the turn. Often on these types of boards, the flop is bet, but the turn is checked. They'll still call the turn and river bets, however. So what ends up being the better play is raising the flop, then betting the turn/river.

In this particular case, everything happened to work out because the flop was capped and Donger was still able to raise the turn.

[krishanleong]

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It really starts to look like a flopped two pair/set after that turn bet/call and river check.

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Yes.

Krishan

[spydog]

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Raising this flop is SOP and it's not even close.

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I think it's pretty close. You won't get the Q or A of hearts to fold and you don't mind lower hearts sticking around. You can make the A or Q of hearts pay for 2 bets on the turn. Plus there are 2 broadway cards on this flop, so calling the flop gives the callers a chance to make a second best hand with a straight or 2-pair, allowing you to get bets out of them on the expensive streets.

Overall, I think a raise on this flop is actually pretty poor.

[BabyJesus]

I like raising the flop, you can get other hands to play back at you cuz they might think you're just on the draw. You can then maybe smooth call their 3 bet on the flop then pop it on the turn. This way you get an extra BB in the pot. You also can get the blinds trapped in there with a weak King.

The purpose of raising the flop isn't to try and get the Ah or the Qh to fold their hand. You're betting for value, and trying to trap other people with lesser holdings. You can guarantee yourself a lot of action should SB or BB have a smaller flopped flush, given there would be at least 3 people in this with UTG or whoever it was showing strength.

Not sure if I communicated my thoughts too well, but I like the flop raise.

[donger]

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Raising this flop is SOP and it's not even close.

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I think it's pretty close. You won't get the Q or A of hearts to fold and you don't mind lower hearts sticking around. You can make the A or Q of hearts pay for 2 bets on the turn. Plus there are 2 broadway cards on this flop, so calling the flop gives the callers a chance to make a second best hand with a straight or 2-pair, allowing you to get bets out of them on the expensive streets.

Overall, I think a raise on this flop is actually pretty poor.

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You guys are forgetting that by raising the flop, I'm more likely to get donkbet on the turn. That way, I get two bets in on both streets, plus I might knock out a weak Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] in the process.

A flop raise in position does little to tip my hand on a board like this. Anybody with a hand like TPGK or better should probably call my raise here then lead the turn again.

[FrankTheTank]

you're arguing that raising the flop will make it more likely for someone to bet into you on the turn? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

look, I realize that fastplaying is the new slowplaying etc., but raising this flop, in the absence of certain very specific reads, is simply terrible poker.

[Entity]

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but raising this flop, in the absence of certain very specific reads, is simply terrible poker.


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Not in 6-max. Since lone high :hearts: will often raise this flop, people will often stop and go after you raise the flop to prevent you from taking a "free" card.

Raising the flop here will usually earn you more than calling and raising the turn, and it isn't even close to "terrible" poker.

Rob

[Joe826]

definetly a river bet.

raising the flop is how i would play it. keep in mind another heart on the turn will kill any action you hope to get from 2-pair/set type hands.

nobody is going to give you credit for a flopped flush.