QTs, this one left a bad taste

pdavester · #1 03-11-2005, 10:30 AM

Mirage 10/20 late night game. Game is very loose, usually 4-7 people for 1-2 bets each flop. Villian is new to the game and hasnt shown down a hand yet. LP is new to poker all together and doesnt have a clue.

Hero is dealt Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] UTG
Hero limps, UTG+2 calls, MP calls, LP calls, Button (villain) raises, SB folds, BB calls, Hero calls, UTG+2 calls, MP calls, LP calls. 6 way (12 sb)
Flop: T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
BB checks, Hero checks, UTG+2 checks, MP bets, LP raises, button calls, BB folds, hero calls, UTG+2 folds, MP calls.
4 to the turn (10 BB)
Turn T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Hero bets, MP calls, LP calls, Button raises, hero calls, MP calls, LP calls
4 to the river (18 BB)
River 5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
hero checks, MP checks, LP bets, Button raises, hero ...

comments on all streets welcome, This left a sour feeling in my mouth and I was thinking about it all night.

Hattifnatt · #2 03-11-2005, 10:40 AM

Tough one, but I guess I would have made a crying call.

philnewall · #3 03-11-2005, 10:42 AM

Once you decided to lead the turn a 3-bet seems necessary. They way you played it, you didn't show much strength and so I would call the river.

badinfluence · #4 03-11-2005, 12:41 PM

I think you tried to get too fancy here and found yourself in a pickle.

Preflop: I am usually tossing this ... unless I am fairly sure that you are going to get in for 1 bet, but your 1-2 bets statement leads me to believe that it isn't completely passive.

(btw, there should be 12.5 sb in the pot right?)

Flop: I think a fold is pretty clear here. Why are you cold calling 2 bets with second pair when MP bet out? You didn't mention his play, but if he is a reasonable player, he'd likely have a J in the playing zone (QJ, KJ, etc.).

Turn: I like betting out here, but I'd 3 bet. Why did you slow down? You got there, might as well capitalize.

River: I think you call. You are getting ~12-1 to on the call assuming a LP call. It smells like Villan might have JJ, TT at this point, but I am seeing 2 bets.

If LP 3 bets, and Villan calls, I am there too.

riffraff · #5 03-11-2005, 12:47 PM

I'd advocate folding this pre-flop also. Unless that game has changed much since I played it, that's too loose of a call UTG.

With the flop action I think you have to fold on the flop.

I'm guessing Villan had JT or maybe AT/JJ since you said it left a bad taste in your mouth.

freekobe · #6 03-11-2005, 01:08 PM

I've got to believe this is a fold preflop. But, that's not that relevant given that you limped.

Flop: have to fold. You have outs to a good hand, but not for two bets. I call with one, fold for two. I don't think it's close.

On the turn, you have to three-bet. Wasn't that the purpose of leading out? What hands is the button raising preflop that have you beat now? Only JJ. If he raised with A10 or J10s, more power to him. Nothing you can do. If he has JJ, it's bad luck, and you'll definitely find out because he'll four-bet/cap the turn on you.

If he doesn't four-bet/cap, I lead out the river and would make a judgment call as to whether or not to call a raise or three-bet.

This might be over-aggressive of me, but in a regular situation, the pre-flop raise with lots of limpers is real strength, and so is the raise on the flop. A10 doesnt make that much sense. I suppose J10s is a possibility.

CanKid · #7 03-11-2005, 01:30 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I've got to believe this is a fold preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Game is very loose, usually 4-7 people for 1-2 bets each

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd limp here too, leak?

HoldEm_Hero · #8 03-11-2005, 01:34 PM

Why the hell are you calling 2 bets after the flop with mid-pair? You deserved to lose. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Kaz The Original · #9 03-11-2005, 01:49 PM

Button has a 10. I think it might be 109s, but it's more likely to be A10.

pdavester · #10 03-11-2005, 01:59 PM

Well you hit the nail on the head here
[ QUOTE ]
I think you tried to get too fancy here and found yourself in a pickle.

[/ QUOTE ]

I only count the 12 sb instead of 12.5 because .5 goes to the rake + tip, so I dont figure it into the pot.

MP could have easily been betting A-high in this spot, or any other pair (88, 99, 9T). LPs flop raise probably says he has a J, but it doesnt have to be in the playing field as he has shown down hands like 83s.

On the turn I decided to lead to change things up, I was very surprised by the buttons raise, especially since he didnt raise the flop. This tells me he has the other T, an overpair or a full house. I decided to call and go for the overcalls by MP and LP.

Once the button raises again on the river scream that he can beat trips? This isnt the PP 15, people dont play overpairs that fast.

Later in that session the button played a hand the same way and had a flopped set.