20K Quest: the plan, the progress, the stats (long, xpost in SS)

[DocMartin]

I am now an enthusiast. In keeping with my new found enthusiasm and the fact that I have just started playing 3/6, I thought I would post my 20K Quest progress report. This is directed at those folks playing micros working their way up in limits, people ahead of me who can offer advice, and others with too much time on their hands willing to read a big “online trip report”.

A little background first. I never really played poker (played backgammon for several years) until October ’04. Have a job in education, pay sucks but the hours and freedom make up for it. World Series coverage got me interested, played at a B&M in August ‘04, got silly lucky at Omaha without a clue and decided poker was fun. Had a bankroll from backgammon, signed up at Party Poker with $200 since a friend said they won money there and I saw an ad on TV. No signup bonus, no rakeback, still no clue. Played .5/1 limit hold’em and some SNG’s and lost said $200. Got annoyed and determined.

In the middle of my tough start I got PokerTracker, bought books, read books, found 2+2, got a clue, figured out 47% VPIP wasn’t the way to go. Another $200 deposit, another site, bonuses, rakeback. I was motivated by those threads about progress, goal setting, 10K stat checkups, and moving up in limits like these by UW_madtown, detruncate, RedRain, BisonBison, and RedRain again.

There is a great “class” of posters moving up through the ranks this year and plenty to be learned from them.

Since I was in no hurry and learning was the key I decided on the 20K Quest. To put it simply, you play roughly 20K hands at each limit before moving up. Posters were still sounding lost after 10K hands at a limit and “small sample size guy” was a factor. After 20K hands you should have a good idea of where your playing ability is at, you should be very comfortable with the limit you are playing at, and you should have learned most of what you can learn at each of these lower limits. This is of course assuming heavy lurking at the 2+2 forums, posting at least occasionally and reading about and studying the game. After 20K hands you should be ready to move up in limits. It’s like the marathon version of THE DISTANCE.

So I played party skins .5/1, bonus whoring along the way eager to move up to 1/2 and double the money I was making. I was pretty happy with my progress (I ran well) and I know I learned a lot along the way and improved steadily bouncing back from my horrible -158BB start in LHE. I lurked the zoo and micro forums pretty hard and posted now and then when I thought I had something to add, was looking for opinions on my opinions or just for amusement. I started keeping track of all the bonuses I whored and the poker winnings I had accumulated at each site. Near the end of my .5/1 experience I started taking out 1K per month to appease the wife and show that the hobby isn’t a big waste of time. One of the advantages to the 20K Quest is that bankroll shouldn’t be an issue. There is little danger of moving up too quickly, if you are a winning player, there will be more than enough big bets in the roll to move up. Here are the 20K stats from .5/1.



Moving up to 1/2 sucked. I thought I would be doubling the money I made but really I was just playing the same amount of hands in tougher games to make the same amount. I was prepared for it to suck but that didn’t help much. I took another -150BB dive to start and battled through some beats and the necessary adjustments that have to be made. Play was tighter, more aggressive, position way more important and I just wasn’t getting paid off as much on my winning hands. I started to become much more aware of other posters stats at these levels which helped me figure out some of the things I was doing wrong. I was playing all the same hands I was at .5/1 (too many for 1/2) but they just weren’t as profitable. I also realized I wasn’t aggressive enough (tougher to be aggressive when you play all those crappy hands). Maniacs gave me a lot of trouble but I kept searching them out. I started using the buddy list a bit. I started leaving bad tables more often. I started making better reads on players. It’s just something you have to get used to. Embrace the tighter games and tougher opponents and improve your game. I started data mining the party skins in anticipation of moving up in limits. I started using GameTime+ and making better reads on players. I took a few stabs at 1/2 (6max) and 2/4 along the way but wasn’t very comfortable in either. A lot more bonus whoring at new sites (some cryptos etc.) kept the roll increasing. Here's the stats from 1/2.



Moving up to 2/4 was a bit tough at first as well. Again I took some hits while adjusting to the new limit and trickier play. More bluffing and aggression but the play isn’t quite as tight as 1/2. I knew the VPIP had to come down to be successful so that was something I worked on. Now I really was doubling the money I was making…. SWEET! I learned how to play better against maniacs, I practiced better table selection. Well maybe not selection but I had no problem leaving bad ones once I was there. I played more 1/2 (6max) especially when whoring Party skins, I’m still not satisfied with my play there but I will keep at it because it is an important part of the game. More whoring, more sites (I have accounts at 13 now with plans for more), and a bigger bankroll. Here are the 2/4 stats.



The Folded To River Bet went from 57.2 to 50.8 to 49.5 throughout the limits if that means anything.

The move to 3/6 has been smooth. I am at the point where I realize a BB is just a BB and it’s only the players that you have to adjust to. The increase in $ value isn’t as shocking as when it doubles like the previous increases in limits. My VPIP is way down (around 16.5%, maybe being a little cautious at first) and my aggression is up. My hand reading is better, my bluffs are timelier, and I don’t pay off as much when I figure I am beaten. I am hoping to really fine tune my game here. I want to use Poker Tracker to its fullest by helping me to make good reads, finding leaks, posting more trouble hands and making adjustments.

If anyone has any comments about my plan, my stats (My low aggression is suspect), ideas to help me improve my play, hints for 3/6 and up feel free to help a brotha out.

[Firefly]

Excellent post. I'm a proponent of having atleast 15/20k hands in .5/1 becuase learning lessons here are alot cheaper then learning them at 2/4. After reading this post, I'm going to make sure I play atleast 15k hands at .5/1 (I'm at 3k now:P) This will help me in being less results orientated I believe. Thanks very much for showing an evolution of a poker player.

Firefly

[Isura]

You were probably a little too loose/passive at 1/2, but I think that's better than too tight in a weak-tight game like 1/2. IT's good that your VP has slowly come down, but I think 19-20% VP is just about perfect at 1/2 and 2/4. Your flop aggression seems to be a bit too low, but it seems to be working for you. Seems like you play pretty well postflop. But I would probably play another 30K hands at 2/4 to convince myself that that winrate is sustainable. DO you multi-table?

[DocMartin]

I agree about the 1/2, I was trying to play my .5/1 game and the other players weren't cooperating. I think some more experience at 1/2 6max will help correct that loose passive play.

I usually play 3-4 tables which is fine for me although it gets a little hectic with 6max since I play too many hands (around 30% with 12% PFR).

[adsman]

This is an excellent, well thought out post. I personally believe that the secret to moving up is to not be intimidated in any way by the increase in the betting amounts. If the money starts to mean something, if it starts to hurt too much, (or feel too good if you have a good session), then I think this is a good indication that you're playing at the wrong level. If you are influenced by the bet sizes, then your game will suffer, as you will start making decisions based on emotional attachment to money and not on pure poker theory. For me the biggest hurdle that I'm continually trying to overcome is to not be results orientated. Not trying to "get even" during a bad session.

We've all heard the phrase, "it's all one big session", but how many of us know what that really means? And of those who do understand, how many actually put it into practice?

[Jeoke]

Great post!! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
Helped get me motivated!

A few questions...
Do you multitable? and if so how many tables?
How much time do you spend studying compared to playing?

Good Luck in future limits! [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[DocMartin]

I usually play 3-4 tables when I play but only 1 or 2 whenever I am playing at a new level. I think I spend almost as much time lurking 2+2 and reading books as I do playing but I have a lot of other things going on (wife, kids, job, sports) so I dont play as much as I could. Its easy to open up the forums for 30 minutes here and there but I like to have at least a couple of hours set aside when I start playing.

[Buckmulligan]

great post. thanks.