Omaha 8 - how much do I suck?

BadBatsuMaru · #1 02-04-2005, 09:57 PM

So I decided to take a little break from the Hold 'Em. The first time I ever played Omaha was in a home game last week, and I thought maybe I'd give it a shot online. I was at the library and read the Omaha chapter in Phil Hellmuth's book Play Poker Like the Pros (a horrible book which teaches very little except how enormous Phil's ego is) and came home and jumped right into 2-tabling Omaha 8.

Party Poker (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
3 folds.

Flop: J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
MP1 folds, CO folds, Button folds.

Turn: Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
.

River: T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
.
BB bets [$1].
Hero calls [$1].
BB shows [ 6d, Jc, 7s, 4h ] a full house, Jacks full of sixes.
Hero shows [ Kh, 6h, Ah, 2h ] Royal Flush.
Hero wins $9.75 from the main pot with Royal Flush.
There was no qualifying low hand.

Anyway, I guess I found another thing the converter doesn't like, but I played the hand really badly. First I was thinking I've got a back-door straight, back-door flush, a pair, two overcards, and a back-door nut low, so I really don't want to fold. On the turn I improve, so I'm still thinking I've got 12 outs to a straight or flush and two sixes that might win it for me, so I call again. Then on the river I make the flush, but I'm thinking that if I raise on that board he might not call unless he has the boat, then he'd re-raise...

I wasn't thinking that holding 4 hearts cuts 2 of my flush outs, and of course I totally missed the fact that the flush I hit was the royal...

So, I guess I need to put a little more thought into this if I'm going to play Omaha now and then, but what's the recommended reading on it?

Phil's book has a chart of hands that I copied:

Premium Hands

1. A-A-2-3
2. A-A-2-x
3. A-A-3-x
4. A-2-3-4
5. A-2-3-x
6. A-2-K-K, A-2-Q-Q
7. A-3-4-5
8. A-A-4-5, A-A-x-x
9. A-2-Q-K, A-2-K-J, A-2-x-x
10. A-3-K-K

Strong hands

11. A-3-4-x
12. 2-3-4-5
13. J-Q-K-A
14. T-J-Q-K
15. J-Q-K-K
16. 9-T-J-Q
17. 2-3-4-x
18. Any four cards between T and A

That's about all I've been going by, limping almost every time except when I'm behind several callers with a really good hand.

Beavis68 · #2 02-04-2005, 10:12 PM

wow, that is pretty bad, at least the river, but as ed miller says, at least it won't happen very often.

I folded a weak flush for one bet in a 24BB pot once, it was the nuts. I am still pisses about that ever time I look at my account balance.

And actually, I really liked Phil NL and stud omaha sections. I didn't get the ego thing, I thought it was an enjoyable read, and his O8 section is one of the best for beginners.

Moneyline · #3 02-04-2005, 11:00 PM

FWIW, I've perused Hellmuth's 08 chapter and I thought it was pretty good. IMO no complete Omaha book has been written. I think the best material is the chapter in Super System 2. You should also probably check out Ray Zee's book, as it has some helpful nuggets (especially regarding tight games). There are other niche materials that you'll want to check out if you get really serious. They are: www.playwinningpoker.com for very loose games, Omaha High Low- Play To Win With the Odds by Bill Boston for hand selection in tight games, and Cappelletti's book (which seems to have both good and bad inforation). Digging around the 2+2 archives will also help you, especially with the many common post-flop dilemmas you'll face that aren't addressed in the books.

As far as the hand goes...

Your post is a little hard to read because of the missing information, see if you can edit it in.

Pre fop: It looks like you called pre-flop, which I think is a good decision. I'd just call if it was raised behind me.

Flop: This flop was a real airball, you totally missed it. I would fold here.

Turn: I'd bet this if no one else had shown interest, but if someone else is betting it's IMO best to muck.

River: Don't you love poker sometimes [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Beavis68 · #4 02-04-2005, 11:06 PM

[ QUOTE ]
FWIW, I've perused Hellmuth's 08 chapter and I thought it was pretty good. IMO no complete Omaha book has been written. I think the best material is the chapter in Super System 2. You should also probably check out Ray Zee's book, as it has some helpful nuggets (especially regarding tight games). There are other niche materials that you'll want to check out if you get really serious. They are: www.playwinningpoker.com for very loose games, Omaha High Low- Play To Win With the Odds by Bill Boston for hand selection in tight games, and Cappelletti's book (which seems to have both good and bad inforation). Digging around the 2+2 archives will also help you, especially with the many common post-flop dilemmas you'll face that aren't addressed in the books.

As far as the hand goes...

Your post is a little hard to read because of the missing information, see if you can edit it in.

Pre fop: It looks like you called pre-flop, which I think is a good decision. I'd just call if it was raised behind me.

Flop: This flop was a real airball, you totally missed it. I would fold here.

Turn: I'd bet this if no one else had shown interest, but if someone else is betting it's IMO best to muck.

River: Don't you love poker sometimes [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

How can you call flopping trips "totally missing"?

Moneyline · #5 02-04-2005, 11:10 PM

He flopped trips? One of us is misreading the hand.

lighterjobs · #6 02-04-2005, 11:11 PM

i'm not exactly sure how this converter works, but did you just call on the flop? why did you call? and did you just flat call on the river with a royal flush? if this is the case, you played pretty badly. you might want to start out playing one table.

BadBatsuMaru · #7 02-04-2005, 11:17 PM

Yeah, the O8 section seemed pretty useful, but it's pretty brief and doesn't really say much of anything about post-flop play. All the stuff on HE seemed pretty out there. I can understand how his "top 10 hands" approach might work in reasonable limit games, but he suggests it as a beginning strategy -- as though capping with 77 pre-flop in a micro is a good idea but AJs is a throw-away. As I looked in the different sections, almost every one was just going on and on about random tournaments he won, and the internet section is totally useless -- it just talks about what a genius entrepeneur he is and really doesn't say anything useful. I'm not expecting everybody to write books as good as SSH or TOP, but Hellmuth sounded childish to me.

Anyway, what's out there as far as specific O8 material? I find myself constnatly wondering really basic things. Is it usually stupid to stay in with a flush draw in a multi-way pot if you don't have the A? Obviously, compared to HE, there is a much larger chance of someone having a boat whenever the board pairs. What about drawing to a low in a multi-way pot? If I have A3 and the flop is 4-8-K should I just assume someone has an A2 if there are several people in the pot?

My biggest questions involve the differences associated with having 40 cards in people's hands instead of 20.

Beavis68 · #8 02-04-2005, 11:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
He flopped trips? One of us is misreading the hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

HA HA HA, that would be me......... man thought I was still on that JJ34 post, very sorry.

BadBatsuMaru · #9 02-04-2005, 11:38 PM

I only posted the hand to show how stupid I was. I don't really need any help with it... I know I probably should've folded after the flop, and I definitely should've raised on the river.

I mean, the "how much do I suck?" was rhetorical. I know the answer is "a lot" [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Beavis68 · #10 02-04-2005, 11:53 PM

no, the answer is: you are new to the game, and you want learn, that does not equal suck, it is very easy to get overwhelmed in this game.