ATs big pot

[chio]

UTG is loose and bad
BB is pretty aggro and bad

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, MP folds, CO folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB calls, <font color="#CC3333">BB 3-bets</font>, UTG calls, Hero calls, SB calls.

Flop: (12 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, UTG calls, Hero calls, SB calls.

Turn: (8 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, Hero calls, SB folds, BB calls.

River: (14 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, Hero calls

what do you think of my play

[Gravy (Gravy Smoothie)]

Hands like this suck but I don't see how you can paly it any differently. The river decision is by far the closest of all, but I call at least for sanity purposes if nothing else.

[Alobar]

yuck. You can prolly fold this river. UTG watched you cold call the turn and you raised PF so hes gotta suspect big cards, if he didnt have the flush I think he'd check out of fear, that you called the turn with a big hear. Course he is an idiot so he isnt thinking that much. But I still think you are beat, and the call is harder to make because there is someone still to act.

[chio]

[ QUOTE ]
yuck. You can prolly fold this river. UTG watched you cold call the turn and you raised PF so hes gotta suspect big cards, if he didnt have the flush I think he'd check out of fear, that you called the turn with a big hear. Course he is an idiot so he isnt thinking that much. But I still think you are beat, and the call is harder to make because there is someone still to act.

[/ QUOTE ]

i agree with the yuck part, but on the turn instead of the river. river call is easy i think. i don't think BB will check a flush made on the river, and we know assuming that opponents think rationally like us is bad. so calling getting 15-1 on the river is fine i think.

i think the time to let it go was the turn. as soon as i called, i knew it was probably bad. i'm getting 5.5-1 with possibility of a 3bet behind me. and i'm behind to AA KK TT AK QJ and/or a flush. plus the fact that if i have the best hand, many cards, like any heart may kill it

anyway, i feel i just got attached to a semi-strong hand in a decent size pot. on the river, BB folded, and UTG showed KsQs. MHIG. wow. thanks for the replies

[Trix]

The money you spend on calling the river, I spend on raising the flop(and maybe get 3bet) instead. I think I get a pretty safe fold later by doing this and I´m pretty much locked till the river anyway, so I might aswell try to protect it if it´s ahead.

[PassiveCaller]

i definitely think raising the flop here is better then getting into this sort of mess. the turn is very ugly and i think playing the flop more aggressively will clean up this hand.

[chio]

[ QUOTE ]
The money you spend on calling the river, I spend on raising the flop(and maybe get 3bet) instead. I think I get a pretty safe fold later by doing this and I´m pretty much locked till the river anyway, so I might aswell try to protect it if it´s ahead.

[/ QUOTE ]

wow everyone hate the river call?

i think raising the flop is terrible:
(1) no way i'm ahead here 4way against a preflop 3better
(2) no one is folding anyway
(3) i don't have that much pot equity even if somehow miraculously ahead
(4) huge possibility of getting 3bet

i can't think of one good reason to raise flop. i'd rather take one off getting 14-1 and see the action develop in front of me on the turn before i act

[Blackjack]

I'd fold the river with calling a close 2nd.

Blackjack

[Zele]

[ QUOTE ]
think raising the flop is terrible:
(1) no way i'm ahead here 4way against a preflop 3better
(2) no one is folding anyway
(3) i don't have that much pot equity even if somehow miraculously ahead
(4) huge possibility of getting 3bet


[/ QUOTE ]

(1) Unlikely, but quite possible.
(2) Sure, SB might.
(3) An argument against calling as much as raising. Yes, you're unlikely to win this pot, but as you said it's a big 'un.
(4) Granted. Life's tough. But there's also some (albeit small) chance the 3-bet will get the pot HU.

I don't hate calling, but I prefer raising. Obviously if the bet was immediately to your right raising would be automatic, but here, as you said, the middle caller's comittment does cut down the knockout value of a raise. Here, I still raise, but just like it less.

[ChessMan]

I prefer raising the flop. It gives me lots of information.

I definitely fold the turn.