how bad is this O8 hand

mat · #1 12-27-2004, 09:27 PM

i dont know how to play heads up in O8 maybe i shouldnt raise and just keep these pots multiway until i learn. go ahead pile on bradleyt. anyhow help please.

Party Poker 2/4 Omaha/8 (7 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Hero posts a blind of $2.
UTG folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, Hero (poster) raises, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (8 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, Button raises, SB folds, BB folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (6 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls.

River: (8 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 10 BB

Phat Mack · #2 12-27-2004, 10:52 PM

I like the way you played this hand. Your preflop raise got three callers, so its pot-building function was fufilled.

When the button raised the flop, what did you take it to mean? (Or does it mean anything in a 2-4 game?)

The pairing 4c on the end was a little heartbreaking, but that's poker.

mat · #3 12-27-2004, 11:20 PM

i dont usually know what a raise means in a two or three way pot thats a problem ive been running into lately. heres another question when reading hands what are the questions that i should be asking myself. so far i try to figure out who is going high who's going low and like ray zee said in his book if their hand is great, mediocre, good or bad just the relative strength of the hand. what are the things that i should be thinking about during the hand. also i do realize that quite often at lower limit games like this one. raises calls and other moves mean nothing im just preparing for the future

BradleyT · #4 12-28-2004, 03:00 AM

[ QUOTE ]
When the button raised the flop, what did you take it to mean? (Or does it mean anything in a 2-4 game?)

[/ QUOTE ]

Raises mean nothing at $2/$4.

Party Poker 2/4 Omaha/8 (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, CO calls, Button folds, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (4 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets, BB raises, MP3 calls, CO folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (5 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, BB raises, MP3 folds, Hero 3-bets, BB calls.

River: (11 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, BB raises, Hero 3-bets, BB calls.

Final Pot: 17 BB

Results in white below: 
BB has 7c 8s 4s 2d (Low: 6, 4, 3, 2, A | High: one pair, eights).
Hero has 2c 9d 4d 3c (Low: 6, 4, 3, 2, A | High: flush, ace high).
Outcome: Hero wins 12.75 BB. BB wins 4.25 BB.

BradleyT · #5 12-28-2004, 03:03 AM

I would have played it the same.

Phat Mack · #6 12-28-2004, 03:52 AM

what are the things that i should be thinking about during the hand.

Raises can mean a lot of things. Since it came from the button, it might have meant that he wanted a free card if he missed on 4th street. Or, since low didn't make on the flop, he could have made some kind of high and was making the low draws pay. Maybe he had a 2 4, as you did, and thought it was a big hand. If button has a history of raising for free cards, it wouldn't hurt to re-pop him, or to lead out on 4th street if a favorable card comes.

After the turn card, you have 2nd nut low and top & bottom two pair. Neither is great, but you are heads up and both are showdownable, so I like the check/call. After 5th street, your two pair is beaten by A with a 7 or better kicker, but if button doesn't have the wheel, your low is still worth half the pot.

GStrot · #7 12-28-2004, 04:00 PM

[ QUOTE ]
i dont know how to play heads up in O8 maybe i shouldnt raise and just keep these pots multiway until i learn. go ahead pile on bradleyt. anyhow help please.

Party Poker 2/4 Omaha/8 (7 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Hero posts a blind of $2.
UTG folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, Hero (poster) raises, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (8 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, Button raises, SB folds, BB folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (6 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls.

River: (8 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 10 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

I am a little confused as to why you kept calling to the river when, at best, you were drawing to nut low. What was your thought process post flop and what hand did you put him on?

Smasharoo · #8 12-28-2004, 04:16 PM

Raising a naked low PF is silly. Betting this flop is silly. Calling down with three to a wheel on the board is pretty marginal too. This is a great hand to end up being scooped on with the second best low and a marginal high.

gergery · #9 12-28-2004, 05:38 PM

A23x is an excellent hand multiway, but merely above average head to head. Its big value comes from being able to scoop with a wheel, and as with all hands that don't happen that often you want more people around to pay you off when they hit. So if you thought the other 3 would call your raise then good raise, if you thought it might get folds then i prefer calling.

On flop, the button's raise is trying to shut out SB/BB so i would not put him on a powerhouse hand, but instead a reasonable high hand like AKxx trying to win high and charge low or a marginal 2-way hand like AQ46 trying to promote in both directions. Most people with nut low draws or very strong 2-way hands would call the flop.

You have a marginal 2-way hand head to head so i like how you play the flop/turn/river, tho i would not be happy and would figure i'm splitting. But i think calling is slightly more EV+ than folding.

O8onlineChamp · #10 12-28-2004, 09:54 PM

The button keeps raising perhaps he has a low hand.
A23K or 234X or AX5 leaving him with a draw to the low, a wheel or trips either way I think you are playing for only half or 1/4 of the pot so I would have folded after the turn out of concern for the wheel.
Just my 2 cents [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]