Greetings. Bet or Check or...?

[Sporky]

Hello everyone. I ran into a hand tonight I'd really like some help with. I've read the forum for a few months and know it can be a great help.

Game: PP $3/$6
Reads: CO - I had not been at the table long (2 Orbits), but the CO had a large stack and was down about 15 BB from the time that I had been there. He seemed to get involved in a lot of hands with mediocre holdings (VP$IP ~ 50%).
BB - was equally as loose, and I was pretty sure he'd play almost anything for 1 more bet.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB folds, BB <font color="#A500AF">(Villian)</font> calls, CO calls.

It was folded around to me and the CO calling was not a big suprise. I held Ac5c and figured at that point that I had the best hand. I wanted to try and narrow it down to CO heads up if possible, but was fairly sure that BB might call a raise. I raised and knocked out the SB. 3 to the flop.

Flop: (6.33 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Villian checks, CO checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, Villian calls, CO calls.

I hit bottom pair on a paired board and a backdoor flush. I thought for a second and decided that I would bet. Comments? I figured that I probably had the best hand at that point and didn't have enough read on either to know if they would go for a flop check-raise on me if they had hit a 9 and doubted either had an overpair...so I bet.

Turn: (4.66 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Villian checks, CO checks, Hero checks.

After the calls on the flop I had no idea what they were doing. I had picked up a 4-flush, but thought anything from 66-88 or X/9 might have called my flop bet. I figured that if they were going to check-raise me with a 9 that they would do it on the turn. So I checked through planning on betting/calling if a blank hits or betting/raising if I make a flush. Also, my bet on the flop and check on the turn made it look like a failed bluff. If I am ahead, I might be able to induce a bet or call on the river if I improved or a blank hit.

I am interested to see how any of you might have played this hand so far. I didn't feel very confident with my pair of 5's on that board with 2 other people still in the pot. I'm not sure if I was too cautious, or played it OK. Any feedback is appreciated. Thanks.

[Nick C]

I would play preflop and the flop the same way.

I would probably go ahead and bet the turn, though. I'm not at all sure I'm ahead, but I'm not assuming I'm behind, either, especially since both of my opponents are loose. If checkraised, I would call and chase my flush.

If I'm just called on the turn and the river card doesn't help me and it's checked to me again, I would check behind.

[Kenshin]

Welcome to the forums sporky.

I consider a bet on the turn an absolute must in this situation. You simply give up too much here by checking a pair and flush draw against loose opponents.

kenshin

[liquidboss]

Yes, I would bet the turn here. Many players will call that small bet on the flop and fold to the large bet on the turn when their overcard doesn't hit. You are probably good here and if the river is a club you are almost guaranteed the pot.

[AceHigh]

Bet the turn. Hands like overcards are getting right around the right price to call the flop, but not on the turn. The only way I would check the turn is if I knew my opponents to be tight callers on the flop and thought it likely I would get check/raised on the turn by a better hand.

[Sporky]

Thanks Kenshin.

What exactly do you mean by "give up too much?" Do you refer to bets that I may be missing if I don't bet? My thoughts were that either I'm ahead but could still be easily outdrawn or I'm way behind and must hit another running club to win. Letting 2 players see a free river can't be a very good move, but at the same time my hand didn't seem all that strong to defend and open myself up for a check-raise given that they called my flop bet on this board. I'm starting to think betting the turn was the right play, but can you elaborate on your thoughts a little for me?

[private joker]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks Kenshin.

What exactly do you mean by "give up too much?" Do you refer to bets that I may be missing if I don't bet? My thoughts were that either I'm ahead but could still be easily outdrawn or I'm way behind and must hit another running club to win. Letting 2 players see a free river can't be a very good move, but at the same time my hand didn't seem all that strong to defend and open myself up for a check-raise given that they called my flop bet on this board. I'm starting to think betting the turn was the right play, but can you elaborate on your thoughts a little for me?

[/ QUOTE ]

You could be giving up the whole pot by checking the turn. You have 9 outs to the flush if you're behind, but there are far more than 9 non-ace overcards that could kill your hand if you're ahead. If a K, Q, or J comes on river that isn't a club, and someone bets into you, then how would you feel about the turn check? Bet the turn, and even if you're raised you can call because you have redraws to the flush.

[Sporky]

Makes sense. Thanks.