An idea (ATTN: Bison)

[Fnord]

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I would personally LOVE to come home and have 10 threads with 100 responses(new posters as well as vets) to it to view, as opposed to having 100 threads with 3 responses to each.

This is not "elitest" thinking. This is an eager mind presenting an idea that may better serve our community.

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Yes it's elitist. Simple economics, who gets to post those 10 hands?

Here is another thought. How about a web page with a collection of common/discussed theads that could be pointed to FAQ style? Kinda like S&Ms idea of a hand history book...

[sublime]

Yes it's elitist. Simple economics, who gets to post those 10 hands?

Errrr anybody who wants to?

It was an example. 10, 20, 30, Whatever. I am sure they will be more content filled if they have to be typed out.

For the LAST time, this is NOT elitist thinking. Its clutter management.

[AdamL]

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I would personally LOVE to come home and have 10 threads with 100 responses(new posters as well as vets) to it to view, as opposed to having 100 threads with 3 responses to each.

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I like that concept. Maybe have each poster limited to a certain number of new threads they can create in a 24 hour period, but have unlimited ability to reply to existing threads...

[uw_madtown]

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I'm sure someone more creative can come up with a better solution.

Okay

No converter ever again

Hows that? [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

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Killing the converter = nooooooo goot.

Frankly, I like being able to come on here and see a LOT of hands and a LOT of advice on those hands. Newer players like myself need to learn a lot, and while I think quality posts are better than quantity, quantity sure does help too.

I think an in-depth post to inform newbies on the most efficient way to post is better than making it HARDER for them to post. For example -- encouraging them to post only one hand at a time, or, if they want to post a batch of hands at once, keep them within a single thread rather than making a new one for each hand. Encouraging them to use the converter, refrain from posting results, include reads before the hand, and ask specific questions after the hand.

I think that creation of threads that explain and discuss key ideas and reoccuring questions (check-raising to drive people out, check-raising to trap people for more bets, how to recognize when you should check through on the river, when to slowplay monsters (if at all), etc) in depth is important -- if you've got a big discussion on a topic, when yet another "check-raise?" post comes along, you can point them in the direction of this large discussion and thusly speed up their education.

I think that maintaining a list of "most helpful threads" would be beneficial -- listing the types of threads I mentioned above, along with other threads (hand histories or just general questions) that proceeded to develop into helpful discussion. Take a look at the General Texas Hold'em forum's "favorite 2+2 threads" and apply the idea to JUST Small Stakes or JUST Micro, and it would be a very good thing. Once the thread gets large, just have someone make a new post containing a cleaned up list.



Does anyone like these ideas? I honestly think that this is a far more friendly, helpful, and productive way of "policiing" the forum than shutting the converter down, or limiting who can post what when. The main problem is that it will take a lot of effort, and there are only so many people willing to put such effort into a forum.

[bisonbison]

Okay guys, we've got a few things here:

1. There are a ton of small stakes posts nowadays. Many of them, particularly subtle strategic ones or ones from posters who are not well know, get lost in the shuffle very quickly.

2. Attempts to make hand posts more noticeable in the flood has led to a growth in obscure, non-sensical, attention-grabbing titles that leads to an arms race which makes the forums really tough to browse. I'll admit that I probably helped this trend quite a bit in my attempt to get responses.

3. Use of the converter to make posts often boils down to converting the hand and posting it; without context, without reads.

4. The small stakes forum is in the somewhat difficult position of handling: a wide array of games, a large number of posters, many who are new to the forums and many who are new to Hold'em or poker in general.

5. I think we can agree that we all like variety, but when the forums get overwhelmed in post traffic, the variety (quests, essays, funny hands, PT stat posts, should I move up? posts, should I raise JJ preflop? posts) feels like it gets in the way of the meat of the forum: discussion of hands and playing strategy.

Some other observations:

The forums are going to continue to grow, and with it the noise to signal ratio, unless:

A) the sub-forums are redifined with a smaller scope.
B) the admins find a way to moderate (or pick moderaters for) content, and not just to deal with spam and porn.
and/or
C) we come up with a fair way to communicate and establish some standards without changes A or B.

We can always ask for A and/or B. I don't know what the 2+2 response would be, but it couldn't hurt to ask.

As for C, I'd leave that up to other people to brainstorm, but I wouldn't be opposed to some basic principles of posting and just saying "listen, I really can't respond to strategy questions without reads and/or with results." Or, I can't respond to 8 posts a day. Or, I can't respond to 5 hands in one post.

edit: I see madtown has beaten me to some of the punch.

[sublime]

Great post Peter.

[Fnord]

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4. The small stakes forum is in the somewhat difficult position of handling: a wide array of games, a large number of posters, many who are new to the forums and many who are new to Hold'em or poker in general.


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MHS has a wider range of games. My SWAG is ~75% of the traffic here seems to be the Party 2/4 and 3/6 games. Another 10% is the same stakes at a different site. Hence, I don't see a stake split as a viable solution.

These games are characterized by a very mixed bag of players most of whom are playing for significant stakes, but not high enough to send you to the Car dealership after a good day. The biggest difference between levels is on average another couple thinking players at the table. However, strong table selection can compensate for this somewhat. So, we're generally playing the same game.

[Cosimo]

I'm going to vote for:

1) More descriptive post titles. Song titles, lyrics, and the like are just WRONG. Useless. I hate that crap. "None of this felt right" is intriguing, because it suggests hard decisions. "Sorry I'm not good at these", "Just a squirrel", and "A river decision" are worse. But both pique my curiosity. They ask me to look at them, but then they're just yet another HH (well, not those four; I'm trying to make a general point). Descriptive post titles makes it easier to find a similar hand. I hate search, especially if most of the AQo hands are titled "No reads, what do I do here?".

2) Rearrange the forums to add intermediate (ML/SS) and expert (SS+). As per the current 1-2-and-under vs 2-4-and-over split, calling two forums just "intermediate" and "expert" would work if posters were dilligent about policing.

3) If you're going to post a few hands (god forbid 8) at a time, post them all in the same thread.

4) If someone posts a naked converter hand with no reads, don't respond. If it looks boring or simple (i.e. newbie asking "did I do the right thing?") don't give in to your soft side; deny him attention. Send him to the intermediate/beginner forums.

5) Adding stickies (like the SNG FAQ) for each forum would be great.

[bisonbison]

My SWAG is ~75% of the traffic here seems to be the Party 2/4 and 3/6 games. Another 10% is the same stakes at a different site. Hence, I don't see a stake split as a viable solution.

Something I had in mind when suggesting that split is that the Mid/High forum is also filled with crap, at a slower but more frustrating pace.

I think your description of what ties the small stakes games together is pretty apt - so I guess one way to reduce traffic would be to ask that questions that aren't specific to small stakes games be taken elsewhere. Questions about moving up, losing streaks, PT stats and so forth are really much more general than most posters assume and could be under A) general, B) psychology, C) books/software or D) probability.

[Fnord]

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I understand if they're averse to deputizing moderators who aren't employees of 2+2, so I wouldn't be averse to a little more splitting of the limit HE forums:


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Random suggestion I have no buisness saying...

Hire Bison to run the forums.
Move the hand converter onto the site, add a banner and continue to improve it.
Buisness value of the forum + times savings to S&M, etc. not having to deal with crap might justify it.