A couple hands for review

[devinthedude]

Sorry if these plays are obvious. I've been a limit player for my entire career and I am trying to learn how to play in a NL cash game.

I have a tight image at this table already, its been 3 orbits and I havent gotten a hand to even think about playing.


100 max NL 2-3 blinds full table at the tent (Hawaiian Gardens)

Hand 1:
Stacks
Me ~90
CO ~200
SB ~700
Everybody else has +-100

I pick up JJ UTG and raise to 15. CO is the only caller. Flop comes A rag rag. I bet 30 and he folds. Should I have risked a little less of my stack to find out whether he had an A or not?

Hand 2:
Stacks
Me ~115
Button ~250
CO ~700
UTG+1 ~500
Everybody else has +-100

I get 74o in the SB
4 limpers and I call the $1 from the SB.
Flop comes J44 rainbow. I check into 5 players trying to slowplay and it gets checked around.

Turn J completing the rainbow. In hindsight I dont know what the hell I was afraid of. There is no way anybody has a J. Anyways I check and it gets checked to the button who bets $6. I just call(???) and everybody else folds.

River is some rag and I check again and the button checks also.

I was disgusted with the way I played hand 2.

All comments welcome....thanks

[schwza]

hand 1: it's fine. i like to bet ~80% of the pot when there's no flush draw and 100% when there is. the idea is that if there's no flush draw and an A on the board, nobody's gonna call an 80% pot bet w/out an ace or better. but you'll never go too far wrong betting the whole pot (as long as you're not varying your bet sizes based on the strength of your hand).

hand 2: i was just getting ready to chastise you for completing with 74o, but then i realized it was 2-3. i would guess it should still be a fold, but i've never played 2-3 (except for the first round of a party tournament when it's 10-15).

flop: i think checking or betting is fine. nobody has more than a 2-outer (ok, technically 4x with x<7 has 3 outs), so a free card doesn't scare you. i guess i prefer checking marginally.

turn: you're kicking yourself, but i think this is well played. if you bet, this is what will happen: a J will call or raise. a 4 could call, fold, or raise (prob not raise). everything else will fold. the only way betting helps you here is that you might be able to get the whole pot instead of chopping with the case 4.

if you check, you don't give anyone any reason to think their A-high isn't good, or that they bluff you out with no hand at all. and if someone does have a J, then checking keeps the pot smaller.

on the river, i might put out a small bet against a player i didn't think was capable of bluff-raising, or one who was loose and would call with an ace or PP. but i would plan on checking and deciding whether to fold or call based on the action.

btw, i just listened to devin the dude last weekend for the first time - he's freakin' awesome. who are some other people you listen to?

[jon_1van]

Hand 1...I dont see anything wrong here

Hand 2....I don't think there was a way to make any money...so don't worry about it too much

[Tilt]

Hand 1: I think the bet is right on. Anything less looks like an uncommitted bluff. Chances are if he has an ace he is doubting his kicker based on pf play. If he calls here with a hand like KQs or KJs you might get drawn out on. More importantly youll have a tough time knowing how to bet if he calls, and be exposed to a bluff that youll have to lay down. I like the play that takes the pot down right here. JJ is not likely to improve.

Hand 2:

1st mistake - spending a $1 on 74o. Its not so much the basic probability vs. pot calculation its also how difficult it will be to bet with confidence later on. I like the EV in some trash hands but not that one.

2nd mistake: Gotta bet that flop with a bet that looks like a bluff - perhaps $3-$5. The Jack will raise you and you'll either push or call and see if you can draw him in. If there is no Jack you may take it down there. Se la vi.

3rd mistake: Check calling the turn. J would have bet on the previous round unless you are playing a super tight table. A high leads out in this situation usually, and you called? A must raise.

4th mistake: You check the showdown. You let him see your FH for free. Not good.

The only good thing that comes out of it is that he just made a note in his notebook about you that says "weak tight rock. can be bluffed away from best hands. only leads with the nuts." You can use that to your advantage.

[schwza]

[ QUOTE ]
4th mistake: You check the showdown. You let him see your FH for free. Not good.


[/ QUOTE ]

what hand will call a bet on the end that hero will beat?

[devinthedude]

Like I said, I am a limit player, and in a 2/3 structure I would always call the buck. Especially with that many limpers.

I'm obviously not going to play with anything less than a dream flop. You don't think 17-1 is good enough preflop to call with just about anything?

Am I just thinking about this the wrong way?

[devinthedude]

[ QUOTE ]
btw, i just listened to devin the dude last weekend for the first time - he's freakin' awesome. who are some other people you listen to?

[/ QUOTE ]

yea, the dude is pretty sweet. not too many people actually know that he actually has some albums out, they just know him from FU on chronic 2000.

as far as other stuff, im a west coast guy, so ive been known to listen to a little dj quik, xzibit stuff like that. 213's new album is pretty hot also

[pdubz]

In general, yes, thinking about 17:1 is a bit erroneous. You can get trapped pretty hard. Is X74 a dream flop? 877? J44? The ugly thing is most flops you hit hard, you are winning pretty small pots -- but if you are contested, you might be running up against hands that outkick your open trips, or leave you vulnerable (if you have two pair you're more likely taking bottom two). I mean, all that being said, if your opponents are weak, get married to top pair on paired boards, and are generally giving you a lot of play, then that completion is excellent. Just take note that, in general, thinking about pot odds preflop against strong players can get you into a lot of trouble. Remember, if you bet out on a flop you hit, and you get raised all in, that's all your chips on the line right there and then. You can't check-call 2xBBs down ... And do you want to be holding 74o in these kinds of situations? :-/

[Ron]

[img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]Hi, When you bet $15 into a $5 pot (3x pot)and was called, what did you think he had? What would he have called with?? QQ, KK, 10-10, 99, (but not a-k or A-q,, no one whould call your bet with just a draw)(not getting good odd's) when the flop hit you guessed that he was afraid of the A and would fold for $30, If that was your thinking then POT bet was right becasue it said you were not afraid of the ace, If you would have made a small bet,, he could have come over the top with $30 and you would have to fold. Good bet. That some of the difference between limit and NL, you can force out most drawing hands with a decent bet.