Who re-raises the river here?

razor · #1 07-01-2004, 01:25 PM

A couple hands...

first one is straightforward until the end.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, Hero calls, MP3 calls, 3 folds, BB checks,

Flop: (5.50 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, Hero bets, MP3 calls, BB folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls.

Turn: (4.75 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, Hero bets, MP3 folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds.

River: (6.75 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG+1 bets, Hero raises, UTG+1 3-bets, Hero ???

Cap or Call?

This hand is a bit more interesting as I'm betting second pair and then get raised on the turn. Who 3-bets the river? Comments on my play on the rest of this hand is welcome.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. MP posts a blind of $0.50.
UTG calls, MP (poster) checks, 2 folds, SB completes, Hero checks,

Flop: (4 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG calls, MP folds, SB calls.

Turn: (3.50 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG raises, SB folds, Hero calls.

River: (7.50 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, UTG raises, Hero ???

Cap or Call?

chief444 · #2 07-01-2004, 01:33 PM

I would call both but I think the first one is a closer decision than the second. It is unlikely given your play that your opponent in hand one is expecting you to have the runner-runner flush and he may be 3-betting with a straight, smaller flush or even as little as top two pair. Actually now that I think about it more I may cap hand 1.

Bill Smith · #3 07-01-2004, 01:40 PM

The 2nd one is particularly dangerous with both straight and flush possibilities, so that's an easy call. The 1st one is a bit trickier... what hands might UTG+1 limp preflop, and cold call to the river, that would beat you here? A8s or a slowplayed AKs are all I can think of. Without a read, I think the more likely scenario is a T9 or maybe a 2-pair. Capping is fine, calling is fine, I'd prefer the cap.

Chris Daddy Cool · #4 07-01-2004, 02:23 PM

First hand there's really no logical 3betting hand the villian can have other than maybe T9 for a gutshot or something like A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Since the flush came runner runner, he'd have a hard time believing you'd have flush if he had the straight, but also make ME think it'd be hard for him to have the flush since it came runner runner. I'm fine with just calling, but I understand capping. Even if he does have a flush it's no guarantee he has the nuts anyways, though A8 is the most logical holding if he does have one...

Hand two is a dangerous river putting in a flush and a straight on the board. I just call.

nothumb · #5 07-01-2004, 02:31 PM

I agree with just calling on hand 2 but for a different reason. First, I seriously doubt he made a straight here. Is he raising JQ when that 2 hits on the turn? The only hand I think he might have that just got better is A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].

If I had to guess, though, I would say he has a better two pair, most likely KT, unless he's out of line. I call.

NT

Chris Daddy Cool · #6 07-01-2004, 02:41 PM

almost everybody raises AK pf. i agree that a straight is unlikely, but the fact that there is a possible straight, flush, set and (as you said most likely) higher two pair out there makes 3betting crazy.

I would lean more towards a Kx flush or KT higher two pair here.

B Dids · #7 07-01-2004, 02:27 PM

Both are pretty easy calls. You'll lose to hands that raise you here far too often to make it +EV to try and extract more bets.

sfer · #8 07-01-2004, 02:47 PM

Cap hand 1. Think how often you'll be shown some QJ or someother crappy 2-pair or slowplayed set, or T9 got there gutshot. You're behind Axs and Kxs. Cap.

Call hand 2. LL players love to play flopped sets like this dude.

razor · #9 07-01-2004, 02:59 PM

Some even like to play Aces like this...

razor · #10 07-01-2004, 02:59 PM

I still can't figure out how (or why) to make great reads when my opponents are playing these hands in this manner... Anyone is liable to do anything with anything at anytime.

I called both these hands, I was fairly certain I was good on the first hand and not quite so certain when I was raised on the second hand.

To be honest I didn't realize the flush & straight possibilities on Hand 2 until I made the initial post, largely because I didn't think UTG was raising the turn with a draw but rather a big K and I so didn't pay attention to those possibilities... so perhaps it would have been good if UTG had A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] to give me a good kick in the ass. I really should slow down my decision-making process a bit - although I am usually (so I think) right or close enough to right.

The Results...

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, Hero calls, MP3 calls, 3 folds, BB checks,

Flop: (5.50 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, Hero bets, MP3 calls, BB folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls.

Turn: (4.75 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, Hero bets, MP3 folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds.

River: (6.75 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG+1 bets, Hero raises, UTG+1 3-bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 12.75 BB
Main Pot: 12.75 BB, between UTG+1 and Hero.

Results below:
UTG+1 shows 6d Jd (two pair, jacks and sixes).
Hero shows Qs Ts (flush, queen high).
Outcome: Hero wins 12.75 BB.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. MP posts a blind of $0.50.
UTG calls, MP (poster) checks, 2 folds, SB completes, Hero checks,

Flop: (4 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG calls, MP folds, SB calls.

Turn: (3.50 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG raises, SB folds, Hero calls.

River: (7.50 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, UTG raises, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 11.50 BB
Main Pot: 11.50 BB, between Hero and UTG.

Results below:
Hero shows Td 9c (two pair, tens and nines).
UTG shows Ad Ac (one pair, aces).
Outcome: Hero wins 11.50 BB.

[i]Edit: Anyone thing check calling is better here or is that too wimpy?[i]