Is Phil Gordon really any good?

[Daliman]

Ok, i know he's pretty good, but it seems to me he has no more poker sense than any other decent tourney player, but can be more aggressive/take more chances since the money means next to nothing to him. Easy to call 300K more with A7o to a reraise for the titlewhen you're not worried about feeding the kids or paying the mortgage with your winnings. I Feel the Same about Ron Rose, (and have posted smae before), and to a VERY SLIGHT extent, Paul Phillips, bu tI think paul has a lot of game though. Not that a 10K buyin or even a million dollars means a hell of a lot to guys like Brunson, Greenstein, Reese, and Ivey, but at LEAST they usually play as if the money means somehting to them.
His K3 bluff looked brilliant, but, in context, wasn't that hard to see as the right play. THe hard thing is pulling that trigger and, since the money means little, it's that much easier. If I'm in that situation, I probably have to check, as I'm still chip leader and cant see bluffing 400K or so more that would bump me to like 3rd chip position. I'd be kicking myself if i'd tried it been called. Not that he doesn't care about he title, but this makes 3 straight WPY events I've seen him in that he's made a lOT of amateurish plays in. If this guy didn't have a big BR, I don't think he could make a living playing tourney poker, and I can guarantee he wouldn't have the same amount of success. He and Ron Rose are what i call "Bankroll Pros". I really don't even consider them professional players, as professional denotes doing it as a means of income, and they do it strictly for the competition. MAn, it realy sounds like i think PG and RR suck; I don't. I just don't think either one of them are any better than you average decent tourney player. I've seen both of them make some plays that could at BEST be described as weak. I know both of them know the game, but sheesh, enough with the rolling of the dice in poker, guys.

Also, he normally seems like a real nice guy, but I did'nt really care for some of his comments;i.e. " I knew you were on a steal" when MM had AQh which he Re-Reraised with.
#1 Shorthanded, in that case, AQh isn't a monster, but it's solid, and i'd HARDLY call it a steal hand, ESPECIALLY if I only have 99. Not like he has JJ-AA/AK or anything.
#2 MAN was that AJ call HORRENDOUS! He called like 300K more with a RERAISER BEHIND LEFT YET TO ACT! What did he put MM on? AT? Even if he put him on 99 or TT(below 99 just isn't feasible, as 99 BARELY is), hes on the wrong side of a coinflip.
Not that he hasn't had great luck in the past, but MM had some fairly crappy luck in the 1.5 hours I saw. He played better than everyone there in my opinion, and deserved to win.

P.S. It seems the WPT cant mention WOrld Series. Seemed funny them calling him "major tournament winner CHris Moneymaker". "THE major tournament winner Chris Moneymaker" would have been better. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[brassnuts]

He's decent. But man does he have a death stare when he gets ticked off, looks like he's plotting the deaths of his opponents' family.

[mtdurham]

I really disagree with his call on the A7 as well.

Here's my thoughts:

When Chris said "Unless I have pocket aces I'm folding" it told Phil a lot. Now I wouldn't put Chris on pocket aces, but it is apparent that he understood he'd need a very strong hand to make a move at this pot.

From Phil's perspective I think the only hands you can put Chris on are AA,KK,QQ,JJ, or AK. AA and AK Phil is practically drawing dead to and KK-JJ make him a decent sized underdog.

Top this off with the fact that the other guy in the hand made an all-in raise when he really wasn't all that short stacked which would often indicate a pocket pair or a hand like A-10. Phil was very lucky that he was even a 25% favorite to win the hand by my estimation.

I know he already had ~200,000 invested in the pot but I think folding and then facing Moneymaker with a small chip lead or facing two opponents (with a large chip lead over both of them) would have been a better proposition.

I do like Moneymaker's play however. He has to figure he has a better hand than the third guy because if the other guy had a monster he probably wouldnt have made such a large raise preflop. He knows Phil is likely to be calling with a hand like Ax or Kx. He has a decent chance of getting Phil to lay down his hand and putting a lot of dead money in the pot. On the other hand, if Phil calls he creates a huge potin which he's the favorite. If he loses to the third guy but beats Phil in the side pot he's still very much alive and if Phil wins he's guaranteed 2nd place money. I like this much more than the alternative of letting the two go heads-up in what he has to assume is roughly a 50-50 hand.

[jwvdcw]

[ QUOTE ]
I really disagree with his call on the A7 as well.

Here's my thoughts:

When Chris said "Unless I have pocket aces I'm folding" it told Phil a lot. Now I wouldn't put Chris on pocket aces, but it is apparent that he understood he'd need a very strong hand to make a move at this pot.

From Phil's perspective I think the only hands you can put Chris on are AA,KK,QQ,JJ, or AK. AA and AK Phil is practically drawing dead to and KK-JJ make him a decent sized underdog.

Top this off with the fact that the other guy in the hand made an all-in raise when he really wasn't all that short stacked which would often indicate a pocket pair or a hand like A-10. Phil was very lucky that he was even a 25% favorite to win the hand by my estimation.

I know he already had ~200,000 invested in the pot but I think folding and then facing Moneymaker with a small chip lead or facing two opponents (with a large chip lead over both of them) would have been a better proposition.

I do like Moneymaker's play however. He has to figure he has a better hand than the third guy because if the other guy had a monster he probably wouldnt have made such a large raise preflop. He knows Phil is likely to be calling with a hand like Ax or Kx. He has a decent chance of getting Phil to lay down his hand and putting a lot of dead money in the pot. On the other hand, if Phil calls he creates a huge potin which he's the favorite. If he loses to the third guy but beats Phil in the side pot he's still very much alive and if Phil wins he's guaranteed 2nd place money. I like this much more than the alternative of letting the two go heads-up in what he has to assume is roughly a 50-50 hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree. I think he read him perfectly. I think he put him on anywhere from pocket 9s-pocket Ks or maybe A-K. Either way it gives him 3 outs. He already had a lot invested in the pot, and he thought it was worth the gamble to win it right there. Maybe not the greatest play in the world, but not terrible either imo.

[tewall]

When I was watching live I thought the A7 was a terrible call, but calculating it on twodimes it looks like Phil would be about a 4 to 1 dog. I don't remember what the pot sizes were, but he was probably getting something like. He appears to know the odds pretty well. That's one thing he seems to be good at.

I also have no idea why he'd be in such a hurry to call with 99. He's at best a coin flip and more than likely dominated.

The AJ call was by that other guy was by far the worst play. That was really clueless.

I didn't notice any mistakes by MM. It shows how important luck is in these things. Do suppose he'd exchange winning the WSOP for this WPT event?

[Daliman]

[ QUOTE ]
I didn't notice any mistakes by MM. It shows how important luck is in these things. Do suppose he'd exchange winning the WSOP for this WPT event?




[/ QUOTE ]
Dude, seriously. Put down the crack pipe.

[Profit]

[ QUOTE ]
didn't notice any mistakes by MM. It shows how important luck is in these things. Do suppose he'd exchange winning the WSOP for this WPT event?





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Dude, seriously. Put down the crack pipe.

[/ QUOTE ]

Too funny, i had to read that about 5x to see if i missed something.

[Cornbread Maxwell]

Phil Gordon is fine as a player, and even if he were bad, there is no way he could possibly be any worse than Masoud, the guy who finished 3rd. If I wanted to watch a player of his caliber I'd hover around the Party Poker $25 NL tables.

[Greg (FossilMan)]

I spent a few hours with Phil during the Foxwoods $10,000 event last year, and I spent most of Monday at this year's WSOP with Phil. He is a very good player. Very aggressive, and good at putting opponent's on a hand. He probably plays a bit too loose, but who am I to say that's a bad thing in a big NLH tourney? ;-)

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

[southerndog]

Moneymaker looked like he lost weight, and his dad gained it tenfold. His dad's pretty annoying too. He's no Ron Rose, but he's annoying.